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 PostPosted: Sat Apr 13, 2013 3:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

SATURN_81 wrote:
First: how long you have to have the option of extraction VRML?

Second: you have to look in every possible direction to capture most of geometry?

Third: in a game like TWINE, it appears that in VRML I only caught the last room where between one last time, singifica that extracting this level must be in areas? or can extarer an entire level at once?


1 - Hmm?

2 - Yes! If you want to capture the majority of the level, I'd back up as far as you can, so you have a wide view of the room/level you're in, then Export. If you didn't capture everything you wanted to, Sogun recommended to keep Exporting the VRML(s) and align them together in a modeller (which may be a bit tedious).

3 - In TWINE, for instance, the first level. If you back up into the corner of the room with the people (where you start) and export the VRML, EVERYTHING should Export that's in the vicinity (including exterior, not the streets outside though)

Hope that offered some insight...
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 PostPosted: Sat Apr 13, 2013 4:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

I learned about the plugin almost by chance, and the text explaining how to use it only mentioned to create the C:/VRML folder and checking the "Export VRML" square when you wanted to capture the scene.
That's what I've been doing for my maps and it has worked for me all the time. I have always used this plugin with the 1964 emulator, I'm not sure if it works with Project64, I haven't tried that.

About you questions:

First: When you check the square with "Export VRML" and go back to the game, it performs so bad that it's almost frozen. I think every frame is being captured as it goes, and overwriting the precious one. So you have to make it stop after 2 or 3 frames.

Second: You don't have to look aywhere. This plugin captures all the graphics that are loaded in memory. So if there's a wall right behind you that you don't see, the plugin will capture it.

Third: For TWINE you won't be able to capture the full level at once. You'll have to capture one room, copy the files in the vrml somewhere else so they don't get overwriten, then capture another room... and when you have all the rooms captured you have to merge all the files somehow (I'm still learning about that).

Meshlab doesn't add anything to the captured background, it just seem to load the VRML file correctly and export to OBJ with no issues (except for vertex shadings that are loosing while exporting, but there's no solution for that).


Last edited by Sogun on Sat Apr 13, 2013 4:25 pm; edited 1 time in total
 
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 PostPosted: Sat Apr 13, 2013 4:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

thanks for replying Acceptable67, however the only thing I understood was "second point", but that's because my level of English, which is beginner so to speak.

it seems you did not understand what I meant in the first point, and I meant how long must be marked the option to export to VRML plug-in Nemu to capture geometry you need. for example, I attempt to capture the geometry of a single room of a level, that option was marked for as long as the room looked and ran in all directions. what about it is not alone to check and uncheck the option can instantly have the required geometry, and if having too long marked this option erases previous data have been picking up during this process.
 
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 PostPosted: Sat Apr 13, 2013 4:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

SATURN_81 wrote:
it seems you did not understand what I meant in the first point, and I meant how long must be marked the option to export to VRML plug-in Nemu to capture geometry you need. for example, I attempt to capture the geometry of a single room of a level, that option was marked for as long as the room looked and ran in all directions. what about it is not alone to check and uncheck the option can instantly have the required geometry, and if having too long marked this option erases previous data have been picking up during this process.


Oh, ok. I understand now. Sogun actually addressed that question properly, and gave you an answer above. I believe it does indeed overwrite, so you need only to check it once, close, reopen and un-check (without moving around).
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 PostPosted: Sat Apr 13, 2013 4:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

Shogun good Acceptable67 I answered and I just moments before replying. I will answer questions wings in the same order Shogun

first: not exactly what frames, with this many seconds you mean the option to export VRML has to be marked? If checked over a certain time overrides the previously captured.

Second: I have no doubts here.

third: TWINE put as an example, but we can apply it to other types of game I guess. certainly understand that you decri at this point, but then I do not understand how you managed to capture your map Kakariko (especially interiors).
 
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 PostPosted: Sat Apr 13, 2013 5:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

SATURN_81 wrote:
third: TWINE put as an example, but we can apply it to other types of game I guess. certainly understand that you decri at this point, but then I do not understand how you managed to capture your map Kakariko (especially interiors).


I've captured Kakariko Forest before. It should render out the entire loaded map. It did for me, at least.

Sogun did the interiors of the houses manually by hand in AutoCAD, which while a hard task, was a very clever thing to do.

Here is an example of the first level in TWINE I just made. This was done scaling and combining three different OBJ (formerly VRML) files in a modeller

P.S. MeshLab is actually REALLY good at converting from VRML. Textures are so much more precise than Blender.
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 PostPosted: Sun Apr 14, 2013 5:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

Kakariko exterior background loads fully in memory, so I was able to capture all of it with the plugin. Only a few objects such as stones and signs were left, so I had to walk next to them and do another capture. Then I merged all the files in Autocad, losing the textures in the process. I later textured the map in Deled.

Something similar happened with the interiors. I walked in every house and capture it. I was hoping to get the tris that were used for collision but, very surprisingly, all the 2D scene was actually recreated in 3D and also it had the right size (I don't remember if I had to change something but I think I didn't).
The only exceptions for interiors being the houses that were actually modelled in 3D (skulltula's house, potion shop and windmill) because they were bigger. The windmill interior worked fine, but the potion shop had collision issues and I had to addapt it. The Skulltula's house original didn't have windows so I had to model my own version of the room.

What I want to learn is a way to join the different captured parts and later split them to addapt the level to GE/PD without losing the textures. And I think with Meshlab and Deled I will be able to. Clipping and portals could be done in Autocad as usual.

-----------------

Also, for the first question:

First: In order to create the files in the C:/VRML folder, you need to check the "Export VRML" square, go back to the game, then uncheck it when you are done. During the process, the last frame will be captured in the WRL file. For example, if a character was running, you will capture his position and pose in the last frame.
If you check "Export VRML" again, the files will be overwritten with the last frame you capture then.


If you still don't understand you can send me a Private Message in Spanish and we can continue there. I think Google Translate is getting in the way.

Si todavía hay cosas que no entiendes envíame un Mensaje Privado en castellano y continuamos hablando así. Creo que el traductor de Google está causando problemas de entendimiento.

EDIT:

Now that I see the TWINE's OBJ. This games uses a lot of 64x64 4bit colored textures that GE doesn't support. I don't know if PD can handle them.
There are two possible solutions. One is converting those textures to greyscaled ones and use vertex shading to color them in editor, but it won't look exactly the same. The other solution is reducing the resolution to 64x32, 32x64 or 32x32, but then you'll be losing detail.

TWINE makes a good use of 4bit textures for backgrounds, although I can't say the same for characters.
 
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 PostPosted: Sun Apr 14, 2013 7:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

I just saw your map Acceptable67, the truth is very well and retains much geometry, some textures seem to be out in place, but that does not seem a problem.

Sogun seems to understand what you mean, and not exactly what I thought a frame or so I can translate the number of frames that say in seconds or so, and I also have solved the doubt about the ultimate that capture overwrite everything else (this is the idea or concept I have about this, if not successful as I explained).
My English is not good, is beginner, newly entered the school. Google translate is it does not give me the best translation of "English to Spanish", but at least I am thankful that there is at least one bad translations, understand much of the general idea and with my level of English do not could do the same if there were. Now it is curious that when I use the translator, translating the "Spanish to English", it appears to do well and I think people understand me. for now do not worry about understanding it seems that much of what you have written. thank Sogun.
 
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 PostPosted: Wed May 22, 2013 3:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

I have a question about how to assemble or gather VRML files extracted from a level and the method that I used was the following because they do not know any other method:

I will make an example of the map Luigui-Raceway "mario kart64" and for this use the 1964 emulator plugin more Nemu:

1 - first do a first scan in the finish line.
2 - charge that scanning MeshLab.
3 - I do a second scan and upload it back to MeshLab.
4 - I do like that all up to the finish line where he did the last scan and upload it back to MeshLab, which means that it is all extracted and visible level MeshLab.
5 - here is where I surje doubt, precisely when saving the full level, it seems that although the level get completoa load time is saved only save the last scan.

may be as simple but as yet do not know the steps. maybe my problem is not in what order to do these things to save the full level.
 
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 PostPosted: Thu May 23, 2013 3:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

I think Meshlab can't assemble different files and it lets you do a little editing but you'll have to rely in a modeler for those features. Use Meshlab to convert the VRML to OBJ and then import that OBJ to your modeler (like Deled).

I've been working on a new map (I hope to release it this weekend Very Happy) and I had a very hard time trying to figure out a way to assemble the different parts in one file with correct textures and mapping. I succeded in the end with the help of Subdrag, although it's a complex process and I want to try to simplify it before explain it. I'll record a tutorial but I want to do my Lesson 2 first, hehe.

Anyway. You'll have to rip the VRML, open it in Meshlab, save as OBJ, import the OBJ to Deled and save file in Deled. Repeat this with all the different rips and you'll be able to merge the files with correct textures in Deled just like Acceptable67 did with TWINE. It will be a matter of move, rotate, scale and assemble the different parts and it might not be perfect, but you'll be very close.

I was able to assemble the different parts in 3dsmax with perfect accuracy, but converting the files was the tricky part.
In my test exporting as *.3ds, then change the texture names and import the file in Deled was fine; but while doing my map an error occured and I wasn't able to create the 3ds file. We had to figure out a complex workaround using XSI, Anim8r and some other tools just to get the geometry and textures ready for Deled.

I don't know how Mario Kart 64 circuits are loaded in memory, perhaps I'll check later and give you some advice, SATURN_81.
 
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 PostPosted: Thu May 23, 2013 7:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

"No sé cómo se cargan Mario Kart 64 circuitos en la memoria, tal vez voy a ver más tarde y te doy un consejo, SATURN_81."
bueno aqui hago una pausa para decir mi experiencia hasta ahora y una gran leccion que aprendi por un pequeño error. resulta que una vez estuve extrayendo nivel Villa de Castlevania64, ( el interior del castillo y con el mismo metodo usado en MK64 ), pude extraer todo y lo curioso es que no importaba el orden mientras no cierres la emulacion ni salgas ni cambies de nivel, y ni siquiera salgas a los jardines exteriores, es decir mientras no hagas nada de esto todo el nivel sera cargado en Meshlab, por supuesto es evidente que tienes que ir habitacion por habitacion y lo curioso es que el orden no importa ya que cuando vas a cargarlo en Meshlab las habitaciones y todo lo demas conserva su orden. yo lo hice asi hasta que cargue la ultima habitacion, lo que quiere decir que tenia el interior del nivel completo ya cargado.fue cuando sali a los jardines exteriores de este nivel hice el ultimo escaneo,y cuando fui a cargarlo, en lugar de estar conectado la puerta de entrada y salida, esta parte del nivel aparecio debajo del interior del nivel interior que tenia ya cargado de antes.

mi experiencia es:
-a la hora de extraer considera un nivel la zona visible de ese area o el area que se supone que se ha cargado en el emulador, es decir no salgas de la zona ni cruces puertas si sabes que va a cambiar la escena que estaba ya cargada en el emulador.
-si la zona a extraer tiene altura (como subir una escalera), extrae esa zona entonces en altura baja, cargala en Meshlab,luego haz lo mismo a media altura y otra vez haz lo mismo en lo mas alto. con esto me refiero a areas donde hay mas de un piso o planta.

esto solo ha sido una pequeña pausa ,espero que les pueda servir a usuarios de todos los niveles que esten intentando aprender y comprender VRLM. si considerais que estoy equivocado en alguna parte de esta experiencia, agradezco cualquier opinion.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"I do not know how Mario Kart 64 are loaded into memory circuits, maybe I'll see you later and give you some advice, SATURN_81."
well here I pause to say my experience so far and I learned a great lesson for a small mistake. is that once I was extracting Castlevania64 level villa (inside the castle and with the same method used in MK64), could extract all and the funny thing is that no matter the order until emulation closures or leave or change in level, and not even go out to the gardens outside, ie while you do nothing of this all will be loaded into MeshLab level, of course it is obvious that you have to go room by room and the funny thing is that the order does not matter because when you MeshLab upload rooms and everything else maintains its order. I did so until you load the last room, which means that the interior had already cargado.fue full level when output to external gardens this level did the last scan, and when I went to load it, instead of being connected to the door and out, this part of the level below appeared inside the inner level that had already loaded before.

my experience is:
-to consider when drawing the visible level of that area or the area that is supposed to be loaded in the emulator, ie do not leave the area or crossing gates if you know it will change the scene that was already loaded in the emulator.
-if the area to be removed is high (like climbing a ladder), then extracted the low altitude area, load it in MeshLab, then do the same at half height and again do the same at the top. by that I mean there are areas where more than one floor or ground.

this has only been a short pause, I hope they can serve users of all levels who are trying to learn and understand VRML. If you consider that I am wrong in any of this experience, I appreciate any opinion.
 
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 PostPosted: Mon May 27, 2013 3:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

good about what I said the other day on my experience, I was a little wrong because not every game works the same, ie in some games such as Doom64, VRML extractions were mounted one above the other with which in this case if I see the need to move the pieces in correct position constraint with a modeler. however there are other games that experience (kart64 mario, castlevania, Diddy Kong Racing) and are these games where I was lucky VRLM load all sorted, even after converting to OBJ with MeshLab, I then load automatically sorted DeleD and placed the rooms that make up a level.

what he did was load in VRML MeshLab with "import mesh" Here was still in the emulator to make a new extraction and was returning MeshLab again and carried the following VRML (no wing never gave newproject option). well getting load the entire map in its correct position and ordination, but I've only gotten to the Castlevania games, Mario kart64. if I do the play "Doom64" or "NightmareCreatures64" when you really load all VRLM hitching a ride on top of each other.

I merge the VRML is interesting, hopefully you can do with MeshLab when a level is fully charged in, especially before converting to obj.por true in this program you can clean or tweak?

despite OBJ load all DeleD not find a way to save them as a single OBJ file. indeed Sogun have any list of commands in Spanish of DeleD? the most used of all, try to follow the tutorials in English that is in the official website, and things on their management, but sometimes that does not help me much as I want.
 
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 PostPosted: Wed May 29, 2013 3:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

good finally we got to keep several "OBJ" into one file "OBJ" but only store with Blender (I must learn to do the same with DeleD), the bad is that you clean the square or cube that appears to beginning in Blender, so the level is saved but with this cube inside, even after in DeleD still see the bucket and not not as removed. also when I say clean I mean like removing such a character, an object, or anything that appears on the map then you will not use in your final map.

@Sogun
I hope your second video preferentially on the lessons that are giving although I have not yet quite clear the first thing you did, which anyway is very good, but I keep messing something.

thank you very much for all the help you give me hope but also continue to discover things for myself, which I think makes me learn too.
 
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