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MRKane
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 PostPosted: Tue Oct 03, 2017 3:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

So I've had a bit more time to try and work on the visibility for this level, and I think it comes down to there being a "magic culling number" somewhere. I've included the model that shows a very warped background and the cursor set to approximately where the player is.


upload images

Or as the co-star said to Sasha Grey "that's tighter than I expected..."

So I've had a play with what I thought was the fog settings and they didn't appear to affect anything here (someone had better correct me on this) but even dropping in a value of FFFF (as opposed to the default which was about 1400) didn't change anything, although lower fog numbers did typically obscure the level (and can I add that I really appeared to have no idea what I was doing!).

Given the length of the Dam itself the player won't be able to see the other side from the starting point. Usually this would be a situation where we'd start crying in the shower, but for the sake of actually doing something we might have to think, either about something we've not yet discovered inside the engine (a magic number limiting visibility) or perhaps a more artistic solution to this particular issue that involves fog, snow, and some trees that obscure the view.

It's important to remember that the level is inherently complete with all rooms as you'd expect them to be, and all visibility lines for things you'd want to shoot at are pretty good, and so this background stuff is simply aesthetic.

I'm open to suggestions here.
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Trevor
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 PostPosted: Wed Oct 04, 2017 6:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

Just a quick thought, I wounder if the stars are interfering with rooms?

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Wreck
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 PostPosted: Wed Oct 04, 2017 12:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

If you're putting the Dam over Defection (at that level ID), it could present problems. The moon / stars will affect the first room, moving it around with you. The Stage Options menu in Game Configurations, you can set the stage ID's for that stuff there. It may have other room lighting info in the second Stage Options tab.

I'm not sure if I already had included the sky / fog settings for Dam. I will need to look. If it is there, you can easily update the sky block in use. My sky blocks should be as close to the originals as we can get, as it should be pretty well a direct conversion.

Should I feel good or bad that I understood that Sasha Grey reference...? Razz

Oh, I may have the texture ID conversion file uploaded someplace. If you use it when exporting new background file with image replacement, it will work for the GE-X ROM.
 
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MRKane
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 PostPosted: Wed Oct 04, 2017 5:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

As it turns out it WAS the starfield that was causing the issue! Turns out after a bit of tweaking we're displaying the extents of the level just fine Smile To be honest with this I'm rather thrilled that it's working as such!

If there's something that kind of always rattles me it's the iterative loop in this process of waiting for the editor to load, save, loading the emulator etc.

I think the core thing is that this puts me back on track for the larger part, and I'll continue to pick through and try to sort out the level.

Pertaining to the Sasha Grey joke: Would you believe that I didn't know about her until I hit her voice acting work, which I found so terrible I actually looked up who it was. Filling in gaps here: I'm a trained actor, and she's become a bit of a running joke with my crowd about the nature of success. As for getting the joke: I respect that Wink

As a technical question: How does the water work in PD? Do I assign a special texture or is it more complicated than that?
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MRKane
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 PostPosted: Mon Oct 09, 2017 4:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

So I've another question: How do we handle steps or steep ramps in PD? I can't seem to get the steps up to the towers or bungee area working correctly. As a status update: I've managed to get most of the level in bar the Dam front, and of course the clipping isn't up to scratch yet.

Wreck: Do you want to be able to get to the bottom of the Dam? At present visibility is fine as long as the player isn't in a situation to look up.
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The Renegadist
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 PostPosted: Mon Oct 09, 2017 9:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

Right on!
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Thundera8589
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 PostPosted: Mon Oct 09, 2017 10:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

MRKane can you give us a little detail on the island? Did you have to move it closer like Wreck recently suggested or is the distance the same as it was originally? Can we get a gif or image of what has been done so far? I'm excited!
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MRKane
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 PostPosted: Tue Oct 10, 2017 5:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

So a little detail on the map and how it stands. I've kind of got the lake section working as you'd expect, but am having issues with the "other side" and visibility in general. It seems that the system doesn't much like stacked portals, or large portals that are too close together so I'm going to need to re-think my approach to how this is cut up, and perhaps just be a little heavy on the polycount in some locations. This is about the only "stuck" area, and the rest of the level (first part, and inside the dam) appears to be working without issue.

What it should look like (you can see the Island there in the distance):


What it looks like for no apparent reason:


And to top it off I still haven't figured out why it doesn't like importing textures...
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Thundera8589
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 PostPosted: Tue Oct 10, 2017 7:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

Nice job so far! Hopefully someone can help with the other side of the lake and with the textures. Looking good though. Smile
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MRKane
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 PostPosted: Wed Oct 11, 2017 4:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

Rightio I need another hand with this. I've been working through the level bit by bit so far, and upon importing the full level and trying to inject into the rom I'm getting an error:
"Error too big 56FE0"

...and it takes hours to import the FBX so that's a pretty painful process Sad

I'd like to ask exactly what the issue there is so I can address it and see about fixing it. I've still not managed to figure out the textures yet either as the editor appears to be having read errors for textures that it has just exported. Apart from that it'd appear that most of the portals are working correctly now, but I'll not sign that one off until I've managed to get the whole level in and make sure that nothing else is interfering with it.

EDIT: Problem magically went away. Perhaps I wasn't exporting correctly. So as a situation update: still can't get textures to work, and have only a couple of very minor portal issues, plus the always usual "there's a seam here" issue that literally litters virtually every join in this level. I've done my best to fix them but it's obviously not sufficient.

Does anyone know what causes the "dip" that's experienced on some clipping as though the player suddenly steps onto a lower platform? That's happening a fair bit.
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Wreck
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 PostPosted: Wed Oct 11, 2017 11:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

Ah, that old 56FE0 file compression issue again...
There's an address in that file, where once it points to an unlucky spot in ROM, the compression gets too big and the file won't fit in the original location. I usually end up replacing unused files with small things, which often helps. It used to be a bigger issue earlier on in the project.

-------------------------------

Here is the sky data for Dam, ported directly from GE to PD. I guess if you are using ID 30 (Defection) for you testing (since that is the first mission stage), go to the "Small Sky Block" in Stage Options for that map, and use the following...

DAM SKY
RGBC 10306001
BLEND MULT 5.0000000000 / PD = 0005
FAR FOG 15000.0000000000 / PD = 3A98
NEAR FOG 3333.0000000000 / PD = 0D05
R C 255.0000000000 / PD = FF
G C 255.0000000000 / PD = FF
B C 255.0000000000 / PD = FF
MAX OBJ VIS 4444.0000000000 / PD = 115C
FAR OBJ OBFUSC DIST 600.0000000000 / PD = 0258
NEAR OBJ OBFUSC DIST 0.0000000000 / PD = 0000
INTENSITY DIFF 000003E7
R W 0.0000000000 / PD = 00
G W 0.0000000000 / PD = 00
B W 0.0000000000 / PD = 00
FAR INTENS 000003E3
NEAR INTENS 000003E8
CLOUD HEIGHT 5000.0000000000 / PD = 1388
OFFSET SKY IMG 0000
WATER HEIGHT -1000.0000000000 / PD = FC18
WATER IMG 0000
WATER ENABLE 00

CONCAVITY 0.0000000000

BG VISIBILITY 0.2000000030
UKNOWN FLOAT 100.0000000000

-------------------------

I also found the Dam texture replacement list. The left side is the original GE ID's, and right is their new GE-X values. I used this when exporting in PD mode, with replace textures option. It automatically updates them all for every room.

0008 0658
0012 019E
0016 06BE
0038 010D
0098 019F
00A7 0742
00AE 065B
00E5 068B
00EF 06FD
00F0 007F
011A 071B
011B 0717
011E 00BD
011F 01A0
0120 0082
0121 00BE
0122 0700
0123 0701
0124 0083
0126 06D7
0128 06CD
012B 068F
012E 0702
0133 00C2
01A7 01A1
01A8 00B3
01AA 01A2
01AB 01A3
01AC 01A4
01AD 01A5
01AE 01A6
01B1 01A7
01B3 01A8
01B4 01A9
01B5 01AA
01B6 01AB
01B7 00C5
01B9 01AC
01BA 01AD
01C4 0690
01ED 01AE
01EF 01AF
01F2 01B0
01F9 06D3
0277 01B1
02B2 0A2E
0329 0057
034C 0670
039A 00D3
03B4 00D4
03B5 00D5
03DD 0A3E
03DE 0A3F
03DF 01B2
03E0 0A40
0465 01B3
0466 01B4
0467 01B5
046C 01B6
0481 01B7
0482 01B8
048F 0674
04AB 01B9
04B3 009C
04D2 01BA
04FD 06F1
0558 018B
0559 06F9
0567 067D
05C9 01BB
05E7 0746
05FF 00A1
0600 00A2
09AA 01BC

-----------------------

As for ladders, you may need to right click on all the tiles being used for the steps (run and rise), and set to Walking type. There may be some other flags to set, but it has been a while. When in doubt, look at something similar that Rare did. Wink

-----------------------

Those seams may just be emulator related. PD is also bad for those when being played on a computer. If you could check on console, that would help to determine whether or not it is a real issue.

----------------------

As for getting to the bottom of the Dam, I had been thinking before that we might have a new gate on the platform. That's a hell of a safety concern without one. The player would activate the gate to finish the mission, triggering the cutscene. Crafty players could still get down there, should they use other means.
 
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MRKane
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 PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 1:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

Ok, pertaining to the texture replacements - I'm importing from fbx which could have a bit to do with the texture situation, but would love to know how to get it working! (tut link if possible). To be totally honest I was planning on getting it to a complete level and then flicking you the geometry, clipping, and portals file.

I know someone mentioned an elevator down the Dams front to go "beta" on the level, and I might also look at having clipping on the lake for vehicles. I was speaking with someone else and they suggested an airvent in the island which would link up with the start of facility as an alternative ending. It's not a major task to put in actually.
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Sogun
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 PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 7:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

In order to make ladders work correctly you need to, in Clipping Mode, righclick on the tiles and do the following:

-Set Tile as Walkable (If you rigghclick and do 'View Clipping By -> Wall/Floor' you can visualiza walkable and non walkable tiles in yelloe and red)
-Set Tile tiles Flag -> 01000000 Ascendable (00001000 and 00000010 are also checked).
 
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The Renegadist
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 PostPosted: Fri Oct 13, 2017 12:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

That would be cool but we should keep this level as close to GE as possible, maybe once we get Dam in GE:X we can release a separate patch with the beta elements back intact. Maybe even make a separate GE:X patch that has several beta elements added in.
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Wreck
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 PostPosted: Fri Oct 13, 2017 9:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

I'm not too keen on adding a vent to the Island, especially as a means of alternate entry. The bungee jump is classic, and is very memorable from the film. I do want players to go to the Island, but through the use of a boat in a short cut scene. It takes too long to get across the lake, and as far as I know, no way to prevent players from getting out of the boat and "swimming" around. Instead, they would jump down off the dock into the boat, and activating it would play a scene of them driving toward the opposite side. Works both ways; to and from the Island.
 
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