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Dark Reyn
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 PostPosted: Mon Jul 02, 2018 12:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

I think I take a different view to Oldyz. For me, the beauty of Goldeneye and Perfect Dark was all in the game engine. I consider them the most perfectly balanced FPS engines ever created. I think all the Bond stuff is great and all, but it's just the veneer. If you want to simulate all that other stuff then Goldeneye Source etc are fine. For me, the bones were always in how it played. I was perfectly happy playing PD (although I think I'd have been happier with a story without aliens).

As Graslu says, all the Bond stuff presents a problem as historically GE was owned by Nintendo, developed by Rare (now owned by Microsoft) and currently no one holds the Bond video game licence (Activision relinquished in 2013) which presumably would have to be bought before releasing a commercial game.

I also struggle with the idea that PD XBLA is not a port as I found it played as I remembered (factoring in that it was translated into a dual analogue control style).

Also, I would have thought Never Say Never Again / Thunderball would be among the hardest for licensing reasons because it's the only Bond story owned by 2 different groups already. Casino Royale will be the first one to become public domain and that won't be for a very very long time (2049).
 
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oldyz
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 PostPosted: Mon Jul 02, 2018 4:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

graslu wrote:
Perfect Dark XBLA isn't a port (at least not direct). They also added a few updates to adjust timings to get as close as N64 as possible, such as explosives or slow motion. I'd guess it's either a complete rewritte or simply emulated.

You can't get the rights for GE and make a EX version of it, you'd have the same issue as Rare did back then with XBLA which is what people seem to forget. The most important part is the legal rights to publish 007 games, not who owns the GE64 game. You can own GE64, but not the rights to publish a game that contains James Bond's brand, actor likeness, etc...


which is why the EX game has to be a generic clone, like i mentioned , i'm not attached to either one of the IP's,

Dark Reyn wrote:
I think I take a different view to Oldyz. For me, the beauty of Goldeneye and Perfect Dark was all in the game engine. I consider them the most perfectly balanced FPS engines ever created. I think all the Bond stuff is great and all, but it's just the veneer.


its not so different, the only thing that i want to make clear is what parts of the engine are needed and what parts are not,
for example, a necessary part is the mechanics of the aimng, the strafing, the walking accelerations, enemy AI, simulant Ai, action blocks, option menus, combat sim menus, 4 player split screen, and some more etCs...

if this data can be extracted and 'pasted' in to another game 'vesel'
then the rest of the elements are available to anyone who can work the editor (all 3d models, sounds, textures, animations)
GE source is cool, but it is different, it does not feel right, for some reason after all these years, there have been no mods that address at the very least the feel of the gameplay. (as far as i know, i stopped trying yrs ago)

as for the unnecessary parts of the code would be the way textures are rendered, the portals, tricks for draw distances on the N64, as an example look at this video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yGoTq03ESJI
graphics are different , but the feel of the game is pretty close

--Blast... so more legal troubles from using never say never?

i guess I guess generic shooter No.007 it is then
 
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Graslu
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 PostPosted: Mon Jul 02, 2018 4:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

So you're basically asking for another TimeSplitters.
It wouldn't be the same. As a generic shooter, you'd also have to change the full story and missions so you lose the original feeling.
GoldenEye: Source changed a lot with the update in 2016 which brought many GE64 features but obviously Source aims to improve upon them to adapt them to the modern standards. It cannot replace the original game.

If you want a more classic remaster, just wait for GoldenEye 25 - https://twitter.com/007goldeneye25
It's being created by some ex-GoldenEye: Source developers and its progress artistically (graphically and musically) is great. We've have yet to see gameplay, but knowing him this will be great.
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oldyz
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 PostPosted: Tue Jul 03, 2018 6:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

that game is looks promising, but the blasted copyright things are its only issue, well that , and it seems it will not be friendly to old/low spec systems.

A Time travel/multiverse cops (Space Force)Laughing based game could be the answer

this would give an excuse to use all the levels from GE & PD but from a different point of view, and different names example: the Dam level but at the time of its construction, in some other world, and the mcguffin would be that certain portals necessary for the story are only accessible at certains points in space (from the DAm you travel to Faciity in universe 23 because a portal to it is there)
or visit a Cetan ship before its crash on earth, etc etc.

my plan is to make a game that would be compatible with the original assets from the n64 code
Super Mod friendly -
Meaning, once it is made you will be able to import anything that can be extracted from the editor into it, be it animation files, sound, textures, 3d models, reload animations, AI scripts, custom maps from the vault, and if possible all information relating to the way the character is controlled.

its main foundations should be GE & PD,

I would make sure the game is designed to be played first and foremost with the N64 controller in mind with the original schemes, since there is now many usb clones and adapters available, so the feeling is not lost.
other modes of control should be possible to acommodate VR, 360 controllers, etc. mostly meant for single player online or mission game-play
its graphics should be a customizable thing, from n64 aestetics as a base to higher poly count enhancemnts trough modding for high end pc's

local split screen with improvements, like playing 4 against 4 online at the very least, minimum 16 player online single screen

you would be able to add stuff, not only replace - add characters, add levels, add objects , weapons, or maybe even remove things, like Jumping, swimming jetpack, modes of interaction, - basically the means to create a whole new game or a couple of old games Wink

edit: i wonder what the heck are those "modern standards" as far as i know, no FPS game has improved many of the elements that OG perfect dark has, heck , even further back , many features of Duke Nukem 3d have not been met or exceeded (it was 3d (anaglyph) and vr compatible way back then)
edit :
speak of the devil timesplitters is getting a re-make of sorts
i remember playing the game on the gamecube a little bit , and hated the way the controls where similar , but different, never finished it because my gamecube was mostly a mario kart, smash brothers thing, also, we always went back to PD GE cuz at the end the N64 controller felt better for shooters.
but after seeing this video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Rd6j4CgeSc
Shocked you are right graslu, this 'generic' game would/should be timesplitters related, i wonder what the status of that IP is.....
 
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Graslu
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 PostPosted: Tue Jul 03, 2018 4:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

GoldenEye 25 is being made on Unreal Engine 4, which is an extremely well optimized Engine that supports a vast variety of PCs. So long as your PC is 64bit and has an okay-ish graphics card, you should be able to run it.

The issue with your idea is that you're throwing so many possibilities on board which aren't profitable at all. No one in the PC market wants to play a new PC game with an N64 controller, so building the game around that would be a bad idea. Sure, a feature that natively supports an N64 control scheme is fine.
Making low and high poly assets and adapt the levels to those would also cost tons of resources, not to mention it'd be hard to maintain a nice art style between both.

Modern standards such as being able to jump, adapt the maps to better flow in multiplayer matches and accomodating more than four players, changes to how the radar works, invulnerability time tweaks, etc...
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oldyz
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 PostPosted: Tue Jul 03, 2018 6:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

nAh Confused, my machines cant handle unreal engine games, the mario 64 port and unreal zelda ocarina demos dont work on my fastest one very well, and they are both 64 bits, maybe becuase there is no way to reduce the graphic quality or who knows, but that is why i'm weary of making the game have the looks beyod the n64 art style, at the most its base level graphics would be more like a dreamcast game.

Like Turok EX (and it runs fine on my PC, even in stereoscopic mode)

for those users who like eye candy the capacity to improve the graphics would be an expansion pack, sort of what the Duke Nukem 3D High Resolution Pack
does:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZaTw7V9eMUU
but a bit better

jump is not a modern mechanic, how the radar works is irrelevant if you don't use it, adapting the maps... Full area 51 in PD with double the weapon ree-spawn points and 16 sims feels very ok, so any MOD map from any other game - Halo, Duke nukem, CoD, etc, will fit right in, invulnerable time tweaking can be added to the multiplayer setup menu, so that is not an issue.

game controllers, well its pc, so priority # 1 goes to mouse keyboard players, priority 2 goes to N64 controller owners, and #3 an Xbox 360/Xbone scheme-
as for profitable... yes that is an issue, at the moment i don't even own Turok ex, and Doom64 EX is free.
but nightdive studios has found a way to make defunct but good games profitable, so i dont think profitablility is an impossible goal.
 
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AL64inthedark
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 PostPosted: Wed Jul 04, 2018 7:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

Yeah but jumping isn't something that needs to be in a game. I hate it when people jump non-stop in games.
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Graslu
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 PostPosted: Wed Jul 04, 2018 11:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

It is a modern mechanic if we're talking about the GoldenEye and Perfect Dark era on console shooters. It's not required, but it's needed if you want smooth movement and nice map flow. You can have jumping without bunny hopping if that's what you're concerned about, AL64.

Just because you don't use the radar it doesn't mean it's not important. It's a very important mechanic in a game where you're no longer looking at your opponents screen since it's online. And you're talking about Perfect Dark maps that were thought with more players in mind, but GoldenEye multiplayer maps *do not* work with more than 4 players, they're too small.

The Mario 64 Unreal project and Zelda aren't even games, they're tech demos and have no options as you said. They're heavily unoptimized, so it's obvious they run bad. Turok 2 EX is hard to run on old systems, too.
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oldyz
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 PostPosted: Thu Jul 05, 2018 1:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

Map size ...

it depends, obviously the default 4 player maps are too small, but i want to be clear i'm referring to full-size versions of them,
i'm talking about maps like the complete Dam, full size depot, full size caverns, full size facility, -- things that could only be done using the gameshark, by the way, and had terrible framerate issues.
, FUll Frigate, complete 3 level library (which was only available to 2 players, kind of contrary to more players = bigger map because of console limitations)
And if we are talking about MOd maps
take SOgun's kakariko village, in a platform with no limits, this map can be as big as to include the cementary, and the interior of the graves (not the well, wasn't the well a full temple?)

Jumping...
BUnny hoping will be inevitable if it means covering great distances in less time, not to mention it means harder to hit targets -
more so with stiff center run-of-the-mill targetting, present in ALL FPS SHOOTERS,
but GE/PD's lightgun targeting (if you are good at it) helps a lot because from a single moderately distant vantage point you can hit anything at multiple angles, up down left right no problem.

And this benefit would be amplified if the game had a VR or motion sensor controller scheme or -modification- in tha case of the ROM, with those, the lightgun targetting would work without having to stand in only one place.
Jumping and flying anemies could be hit as easy as you can hit the monsters in house of the dead.

Also i think jumping is very important to single player levels.

And rewinding a bit to MOD maps, there is one of the fire temple for multi that would be played best with jumping, right now its solution is to have invisible bridges, not a fan of that, i like to make mistakes and suffer the consequence of doing a wrong jump and falling to lava.

Juming issue # 2 , Zoinkity explained to me that gravity in GE is a weird thing for the player, its is programmed as a 2d thing so there is an issue with vertical coordinates that do not allow for a gameshark code that works with coordinates.

PD might have the same issue, but with conditional codes there is a possibility to have temporaray deactivation of the gravity to allow for a modified moonjump code to be activated without the need to have 0 clipping, tied to a sound activation code, plus a modified crouch command re-maped to a button ( a request to be able to re-map controller functions to teh editor has been made several times)

swimming takes the same approach, but the condition is an enviroment (a modified poisoned room like in PD, or Gassed Room in GE) and enviroment sound, (certain rooms in PD have a constant bleep of computers) and the moon jump is not temporary, and the default gravity while in the areas with these 2 contitions would be -.75

Jet pack would be tied to a modified version of the night vision goggles
when you equip them, this would be the condition to be able to hover using the L button (the original moonjump, basically, but replace the 0 clipping conditional with the item equipped conditional)

of course all this code making mess would be a non-issue if the code is 'pasted' to a new engine

unreal engine - i would love to be able to test unreal or unity games, but my internet is too spotty, and to go out and buy a pirated game that i probably wont finish is troublesome to me. (dont pirate games kids)
if these engines can enable a fast paced 4 player gaming experience on a dual core or quad core system (currently the most affordable option for a retro gaming system) -then it will be a good thing

Edit: basically, at its most austere graphic mode, enable players to use tiny computers like this:

as their 4 player retro gaming machines
 
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Dark Reyn
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 PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2018 3:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

I think jumping is a dysfunctional game mechanic. It came about because people can jump in real life obviously, and the likes of Half Life, Unreal and Halo used them. But in real terms jumping during a gun fight is highly unrealistic mainly because it would slow you down. GE and PD by never having the ability actually creating a better gunfighting environment.
 
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 PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2018 3:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

I'd much prefer prompts to jump, in areas where the player can hop onto a box or something waist high, or to clear a small gap. Jumping whenever you want to leads certain players to abuse the ability and frustrate others.
 
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Graslu
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 PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2018 3:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

On games meant to be realistic jumping already destroys your speed and accuracy. Not all games are meant to be realsitic, and that's the case for Quake, Half-Life, Unreal and Halo as you listed.

As I already stated before, it greatly adds depth to the movement skill department on multiplayer games.
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Dark Reyn
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 PostPosted: Fri Jul 13, 2018 11:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

I disagree but not important. It's such a shame the source code hasn't become open source. I can't really see how it benefits Rare anymore because of the licensing and having already created and subsequently rereleased an upgraded version of the engine. I don't think any of the original team still work for Rare but would those who worked on PDZ or Timesplitters have kept source material for reference perhaps? One can dream...
 
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 PostPosted: Sat Jul 14, 2018 7:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

The original source code is supposedly somewhere along the Rare offices. Ken Lobb, B Jones and some others still work at Rare.

It's illegal to release the source code though unless you have permission from your higher ups, in this case Microsoft, as they'd also be releasing the code for Perfect Dark, pretty much.
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