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Sogun
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 PostPosted: Thu Mar 19, 2020 3:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

Thanks guys.

Here's the patch if anyone wants to try to fix the clouds for console or just wants to "play" it.
https://www.mediafire.com/file/zwiua94m0iwad59/GE_dirty_road_2020-03-19.xdelta/file


I have and idea for a level or more like a graphical showcase that will have many different environments and graphic tricks that I have been experimenting with, have in mind or will like to copy from other N64 games. For the moment I haven't worked on it, although you could say that the skybox is the first step. I tried to do this same thing for my part in the 'GoldenEye Tower' project but I was too ambitious and didn't have the skills to finish it. I need to learn more modeling tools in order to work faster and be able to do more complex things.

However, I'm slowly working in porting the Nintendo Maps compilation to Perfect Dark and I want to release it before doing anything else.
I followed Wreck's tutorial to extend the number of levels available and I have all the slots already planned.
I would like to add custom weapons and characters too but I'll look into that after all levels have been ported. I already expanded the tables so I hope I won't get into any problems. Has there been any improvements to this? Are we able to extend the slots even further?

I would also like to ask, is it possible to enlarge the music list and have more tracks for multiplayer without replacing any of the PD tracks? I also noticed that you can add new instruments although I don't know if there is a limit. I currently don't know how to do any music so it isn't a priority now.

Returning to that graphical showcase, I'm not even sure if I should make it with GE+footsteps patch or Perfect Dark in mind. I will start a new topic listing all the engine differences because it you think about them, there are a lot and very significant. You would think Perfect Dark is more advanced, but GoldenEye lets you do some things that can't be done in PD and maybe with the footsteps patch we can have the best of both.


One last thing about the skybox test.
With the PD engine I can have a proper skybox that moves with the player and also a proper sun with blinding and lens flare effect.
I was thinking about separating the clouds layer and make it and object so I can add slow rotation to it. I know it's possible to have rotating objects in PD since Wreck already did it for me in the PD Kakariko Village map (which I have noticed you can't download from the N64 Vault yet Exclamation ). I'm not sure how such a big object will behave, though. And I don't think it's possible to add a prop to the skybox room.
I can think even wildier and make a second prop for a night sky, then make slowly fade away between the two object to have a day/nigh cicle. Or even crazier, have three objects to include twilight. Razz
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wgPcl1WJ98Y
 
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Thundera8589
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 PostPosted: Fri Mar 20, 2020 2:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

So in terms of the water. Essentially what you're saying is you figured out how to recreate the water animation seen in Goldeneye for your Goldeneye mods? Can you do the same procedure for PD?
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 PostPosted: Fri Mar 20, 2020 3:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

Thundera8589 wrote:
So in terms of the water. Essentially what you're saying is you figured out how to recreate the water animation seen in Goldeneye for your Goldeneye mods? Can you do the same procedure for PD?


There isn't anything special about the water in my levels. The Editor can add water to the levels since the beginning just like it can add clouds. The water in 'Frigate' and my 'Blue Resort' and 'Holiday Island' are part of the default GE skybox.

However, there are things like the water in Dam and Caverns that are scrolling and fading textures simulating and animation. This I don't know how it works, but it was used again in GoldFinger 64 on the swimming pool in the Miami level:
https://youtu.be/YbehCeIbv5g?t=2m45s
 
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 PostPosted: Fri Mar 20, 2020 11:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

The pool is most likely one of the two animated water textures (I would guess Caverns one), replaced with a custom image. Does look great, though.

Only the water in Frigate uses the skybox type. As Sogun mentioned, Dam and Caverns are part of the background. From what I have been told, GE and PD handle these animated textures differently.
 
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 PostPosted: Fri Mar 20, 2020 2:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

The water in Miami was originally opaque like Dam, however I thought it would be better if it was translucent however, the animated textures do NOT support translucency.
So the water in Miami is now "Caustics" that is the lensing of the suns rays on the pool floor caused by ripples in the surface.

It uses the Dam type.

Some notes on your skybox...
You need to NOT use black on your textures (its causing an outline to show)
- For the clouds this might not be easy but the sun is an easy fix, do not use a texture on the colour channel of combiner.
CC1 = (0-0)*0+1 (or SHADE if you want yellow)
AC1 = (0 - 0)*0+TEX0
CC/AC2 = PASS


make all triangles fogless 1 cycle (if you havnt already) and do not use primary, all layers must be secondary (to avoid bullet impacts)

For the coloured skybox, instead of using blue, use transparency.
So, where you have white, this can be say 90% Opaque.
where you have mid blue this could be 50% Opaque.
where you have deep blue this could be 0% Opaque
- This will allow you to assign a sky colour in level setup and use sky colour change AI Block.

Always have the sun drawn last (on top) (The moon in GEX uses the same technique and is drawn on top of clouds despite the illusion of the clouds floating in front of and being illuminated by the moon)

Trev
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Sogun
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 PostPosted: Fri Mar 20, 2020 3:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

Thanks Trevor, I'll try what you say tomorrow.

LOL I forgot about primary geometry leaving bulletholes! Now it really is like that movie Razz.
Very good advice about using transparency for the coloured skybox.

I'm still not familiar with Advanced options for textures and 1 cycle and 2 cycles modes but I'll try to follow your explanations.

About the outline. These are greyscaled textures ripped directly from PilotWings 64 and already had the black background. I don't think it's possible to assign another color for transparency unless I change those textures to palleted color and then they can't be as hi-res as they are now. Or is there something I'm missing?
 
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Thundera8589
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 PostPosted: Sat Mar 21, 2020 6:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

Sogun wrote:
Thundera8589 wrote:
So in terms of the water. Essentially what you're saying is you figured out how to recreate the water animation seen in Goldeneye for your Goldeneye mods? Can you do the same procedure for PD?


There isn't anything special about the water in my levels. The Editor can add water to the levels since the beginning just like it can add clouds. The water in 'Frigate' and my 'Blue Resort' and 'Holiday Island' are part of the default GE skybox.

However, there are things like the water in Dam and Caverns that are scrolling and fading textures simulating and animation. This I don't know how it works, but it was used again in GoldFinger 64 on the swimming pool in the Miami level:
https://youtu.be/YbehCeIbv5g?t=2m45s

So does that mean the water from frigate was alot easier to replicate than the ones in Dam and Caverns? Can GE-X's Frigate level replicate the same procedure that you used for your Frigate skybox method? Has it been tried out yet?

Also there was a similar animation in PD's Chicago level that uses a similar fade in/out animation for the wall in the waterfall spot. Not the water flowing down but this "smoke" looking-like texture near it. I pointed this out to Wreck some time ago. I think for PD the way that animation is handled would be the way to recreate the water animation from Dam and Caverns onto GE-X by just replacing the "smoke" texture images with the Dam or Caverns ones.

P.S. That water animation in that pool looks absolutely beautiful! Well done to whoever created it.

P.P.S. Will we see water animations get tested and worked on before and then for the next GE-X patch release?
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Sogun
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 PostPosted: Sat Mar 21, 2020 12:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

@Thundera8589

I'm not sure what do you mean. GE:X Frigate already has water. GoldenEye and Perfect Dark work the same with the default skybox and it's nothing special. Dam and Caverns do their own thing.

I took a look to Chicago and I don't see fading animations. To me, the steam at the bottom of the stream it's the same as the smoke when the bullet impacts and object but in this case there are dozens of those appearing and dissapearing. It's the polygon that contains the textures the one that rotates and fades, but not the texture the one that animates.

The stream of water seems to be made of two layers of probable the same texture with different UV scales that scroll at different speeds. Not an animation although it looks very good.

As for GoldenEye:X progress I can't answer any questions because I was involved in the project just for very specific things and I'm not part of the core team. This isn't the topic to discuss about it either.


@Trevor

Thanks to your tips the clouds and Sun look much better now. I haven't tested it yet on console so I don't now if it will render correctly.



I'm having trouble with the background sky which I thought was the easy part. Maybe it's because I'm only testing on emulator (Glide64 and GlideN64 have different results for the same rom). I'll keep trying after dinner.

On another hand... Is it possible to make the layer of clouds to rotate? I'm thinking of splitting it as a prop and make it behave like the antenna in Surface. Even if it isn't a 360º rotation and it changes directions I'm ok as long as there is some noticeable movement.


EDIT

Clouds weren't rendering on console (and now the Sun triangles are pure white with no texture), so I kept following Trevor's advice and changed background blue color to transparency and put everything on secondary. It got even worst, hehe.

If background layer is Primary, then it renders fine on emulator, but when I move those triangles to Secondary everything becomes white. On console not only do the clouds not render, but their triangles display in something similar to 'line mode' and the more transparent the vertex the more white that part of the triangle becomes. Can someone who knows what he is doing take a look?

https://www.mediafire.com/file/t16b4oxysonj8wb/GE_dirty_road_2020-03-21.xdelta/file

Ypu can either select Dam, Facility or Runway. They have the same level with different sky color. In this patch the background layer hasn't been moved to Secondary so it's easier to select and work with it.


Speaking of different sky colors, I tried a orangish color to simulate sunset and it doesn't look right with the transparency approach as colors should be darker as they get close to the horizon. Exactly the opposite as in day time.






Was there a reason to change from vertex color to vertex alpha + sky color other than beeing able to transition between colors by changing skies?
I think my previous approach worked better to have any kind of sky, but they would be static. Even so, you could change to a night sky by lowering the drawing distance so you can't see the dome.
And it also let's you do things like this:

https://www.theactivetimes.com/sites/default/files/images/1_oneintro_el%20porto_sunset_shutter_ss.png
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/proxy/2TaFGv5jL60yZj1sVfZBN0q9EVe7z4BbrO_-2qTe6c92YQHjrrt-RSxNAgf_KGZnj5eGF-AsAYOeZBLZ3jY6UKNrVHK0XogvuumX5pLgZ5s92A
 
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Trevor
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 PostPosted: Sun Mar 22, 2020 12:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

Sogun wrote:

Thanks to your tips the clouds and Sun look much better now. I haven't tested it yet on console so I don't now if it will render correctly.



Wow, that looks better Smile

Sogun wrote:

Clouds weren't rendering on console (and now the Sun triangles are pure white with no texture), so I kept following Trevor's advice and changed background blue color to transparency and put everything on secondary. It got even worst, hehe.

If background layer is Primary, then it renders fine on emulator, but when I move those triangles to Secondary everything becomes white. On console not only do the clouds not render, but their triangles display in something similar to 'line mode' and the more transparent the vertex the more white that part of the triangle becomes. Can someone who knows what he is doing take a look?

hmm, can you post an image of the advanced dialog for each texture.
It sounds like the sun is not using the alpha and triangles are conflicted between 1 cycle and 2 cycle (causing "lines")

Sogun wrote:

Speaking of different sky colors, I tried a orangish color to simulate sunset and it doesn't look right with the transparency approach as colors should be darker as they get close to the horizon. Exactly the opposite as in day time.






Was there a reason to change from vertex color to vertex alpha + sky color other than beeing able to transition between colors by changing skies?
I think my previous approach worked better to have any kind of sky, but they would be static. Even so, you could change to a night sky by lowering the drawing distance so you can't see the dome.
And it also let's you do things like this:

No, that was the only reason for changing blue to alpha, however you have chosen an extreme which wont work.
The sun is in the wrong place for a start, but the darkening sky you show also has no clouds.
The sky colour change would only be effective between shades of blue and tinges of yellow - i.e. mid-morning through mid-afternoon, snowy climate, dusty climate, alien atmosphere.
For sunrise/sunset your right, you would need a different sky.

But, remember the colour you set in setup/action block should be the darkest, most saturated colour seen - since the sky "adds" white to it bleaching it.



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 PostPosted: Sun Mar 22, 2020 4:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

@Trevor. These are the advance settings for all textures.
I posted the last patch in my previous message, that wasn't useful? You mentioned de "lines" that can only be seen in on console in that patch.

Background dome with vertex alpha
https://i.postimg.cc/50v2GkY2/GE-Skybox-advance-texture-background-dome.png

The big and round cloud
https://i.postimg.cc/52hcG9w8/GE-Skybox-advance-texture-big-cloud.png

The clouds in the horizon.
https://i.postimg.cc/WzWC7sNF/GE-Skybox-advance-texture-cloud-low.png
Actually this texture was originally 256x32 but I reduced it to 128x32 because it gave me an error when I converted the map if I rememeber correctly. Here's the original texture if it's possible to add it (UVs should be updated): https://i.postimg.cc/7Zs1YbBT/D15815-D-c.png

Three clouds texture
https://i.postimg.cc/s2mk2Yk4/GE-Skybox-advance-texture-three-clouds.png

More clouds
https://i.postimg.cc/DysywNBQ/GE-Skybox-advance-texture-other-clouds.png

Sun texture
https://i.postimg.cc/N0GgbjYb/GE-Skybox-advance-texture-Sun.png

The texture used for full transparent polygons with no clouds. This polygons can be removed since they don't serve any purpose in this skybox. But I kept them just I case I wanted to add new texture on them.
https://i.postimg.cc/ncLCV2N0/GE-Skybox-advance-texture-no-clouds.png


As for aesthetics, my original idea was to have static skyboxes for PD, but it was easier to set everything for GE first. It was while working on this when new ideas popped-up like rotating clouds and color transition.

Oh, and I can't see the last image you posted. It' taking too long to access the link.
 
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Trevor
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 PostPosted: Mon Mar 23, 2020 12:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

Ah yes, I see, you have several errors in the CC/RM

I will download the patch and fix.

"that can only be seen in on console in that patch. "
As always - the de-jure way to test is always on console Smile

Trev

p.s. here is a vid of the fixed skies
[img]http://fgfc.ddns.net/perfectgold/sogunskies.mp4[/img]
Patch here
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 PostPosted: Tue Apr 14, 2020 4:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

PM's not working, keep getting
Quote:
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Make sure you’ve got the right web address: http://www.shootersforever.com





Sogun wrote:
Hi Trevor, I'm back again with the skybox.

I have noticed that you can see the clouds through the geometry. Do you think this can be fixed?

Yes, this can be fixed, but its not going to be easy.
PD fixed this by making a new room that always draws first and so guess what I am going to say Razz
To do this in GE you will need to make the room an unreachable room (room 0 preferably) and use special vis to render it in every other room (like dam)


Sogun wrote:

SURFACE 1 - Daylight skybox with alpha shading + animated clouds (it looks nicer on console than it does on emulator. It blends a lot better)

yeah, I liked the animated clouds on top the "3d" clouds and Rayleigh scattering.

Sogun wrote:

SILO - A test for terrain. 2560 triangles and a 256x256 8 bit texture splitted in chunks of 32x32 textures (1 texel ~ 2 units). Really not the best texture choice, heh.
FRIGATE - Same as above but this time 1 texel ~ 1 unit trying to get crispier textures at close range.
SURFACE 2 - Texture now is a 512x512 4 bit texture splitted in chunks of 64x64. (1 texel ~ 1 unit). Texture aliasing is horrible on console.
BUNKER 2 - Same as above but this time 1 texel ~ 2 units. Still lots of aliasing on console.

These terrain tests would need a buff in resolution in order to look better on console and it may not be enough. Rogue Squadron suffers the same issue where it looks like a PS1 game in low res.
I was targeting a 320x240 resolution but it seems this approach for terrains (especially if they aren't flat) won't look good no matter what. I think that's why Rare used very streched textures for ground in their non-urban levels (Statue Park, Jungle, Crash Site, Villa...). Smooth gradients of similar colors works better than an undetailed blurry mess.


Thanks


Ah yes, I think you need to have a look at detailmaps and tile manipulation.
You can for example load 2 tiles into tmem (same principle as detail maps) and have a crisp 32x64x4ci image under your feet with a 32x32x4+16x16x4ci mip-map of a greater field (i.e. not one that repeats like you would get with normal mip-mapping)

its difficult to describe but I had a doc somewhere.

here is detail mapping (bottom) http://fgfc.ddns.net/PerfectGold/C0TextureExamples/

and here is a field tile (again, bottom of doc)
http://fgfc.ddns.net/PerfectGold/SetTile.htm

Trev
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 PostPosted: Tue Apr 14, 2020 6:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

Some others have mentioned that using quotation marks breaks PMs. I have experienced this, myself. One good way around this is to use two apostrophes instead. It looks the same, and should let your message go through. Maybe see if that was the issue.
 
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 PostPosted: Wed Apr 15, 2020 7:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

Sogun wrote:

However, I'm slowly working in porting the Nintendo Maps compilation to Perfect Dark and I want to release it before doing anything else.


Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy

Finally, a bit of fantastic news in these Corona-darkened days!

If you don't mind, can you occasionally post a quick report on your progress? It will be interesting to follow the project's progress.
 
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 PostPosted: Sat Apr 25, 2020 5:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

Today I've been doing some tests to mimic Fur Shading in GE and PD.



Above with normal texturing and below with my best looking test. These images are from an emulator and the level also works on console. However, I need to clarify some things.

This is an idea that has been around for several years after I read an article about how the PS2 game Shadow of the Colossus did the hair in their monsters. I think that article is not longer available (it's been many years) but maybe it's been explained in another website.

The basic idea is that the "hair" is actually a lot of layers of polygons on top of each other with transparent and semitransparent pixels. If you ever wonder why this effect had like a pattern of dots it's because those are isolated pixels from different layers.
This approach skyrockets polycount and also needs lots of calculations to display the pixels in the correct order and with the right color so it's very performance expensive.
That's really bad news for a N64 game since it can't manage many polygons and has issues with big semitransparent effects (like the smoke in GE).

The level is made of a base layer of 1152 triangles with 64x64 4 bit greyscaled textures painted in green (there are 16 textures that make a bigger texture of 256x256) and with no transparency. The texels in this example are 1/2 unit and that's why they look so crisp.
Above the base layer there are 4 more layers separated 1 unit from each other. This 4 layers are exactly like the first one excep they have transparency.
So that's a total of 5760 polygons and since they are so small they can almost be seen all at one (I cropped the image a little for aesthetics). It runs 60 fps on emulator but below 10 fps on console, haha. So you can make it look very good and run perfect for emulator, but on console it's another matter. Also, the N64 resolution is 320x240 and that means that those small texels won't display at all (not even when you look right at the floor and kneel!) and you'll get at least the first mipmap level (without mipmaps it would look like a PSX game or even horrible).
So translating that image on console would result in a very laggy and blurry scene, with no trace of the fur shading.

It isn't that bad with 2 or 3 layers of transparency, getting framerates of 20 fps or so. However I'm concerned how it would behave with at least one guard on screen or in a level with many props even if they aren't on scren. Without fur shading it runs flawlessly (also because it's only 1152 tris at max).


From a previous test I made, I concluded that with 1 texel = 1 unit on screen you won't see the original texture but the first mipmap (or an aliased texture) on the floor and side walls when you look straight. The seams of the original texture and its first mipmap are right at the screen boundaries. So you'll start to see part of the original texture if you make the texels bigger:
1 texel = 1 unit for a 32x32x8 color texture
1 texel = 2 units for a 32x32x8 color texture
1 texel = 1 unit for a 64x64x4 greyscale texture
1 texel = 2 units for a 64x64x4 greyscale texture

So I should do it with 3 layers of transparency and texels 2 units big. It looks like this:



I made the polygons bigger and kept the 1 unit gap between layers. The effect is almost unnoticable and it makes the image blurry. On console it looks worse than without the effect and the last mimap level is too dark. I think if I make the gap between layers I can improve it. But I'll try tomorrow.


Here's the patch to the rom with all my grass tests from today if someone wants to experience it first hand:

https://www.mediafire.com/file/geu5yhjbmfimzt0/GE_Grass_2020-04-26.xdelta/file

All 20 levels have been replaced with different configurations. The first row is just base texture, the second row has 2 layers of transparency, the third row has 3 layers and the last row has 4 layers.
Then the first level in each row is 1 texel = 1 unit, the second 1 texel = 2 units, the third 1 texel = 3 units, the fourth 1 texel = 4 units and the last one 2 texel = 1 unit.
The Control level has some clipping issues if you walk straight from the start point. I don't know why it happens since it's the same file than the other levels. You'll have to make a detour.


-----

There are other graphical effects that can be done using this approach. Here is a proof of concept I made a long time ago which I wanted to showcase in my GoldenEye Tower part (sadly I couldn't finish it).

Brick wall
Brick wall on console


Also, for another thing I have in mind... Can someone explain to me in detail how to do an animated texture that fades the same way the water in Caverns does? Mmmmm, can that sort of texture use transparency and custom mipmaps? I need to make it a 64x64x4 IA texture.
 
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