GoldenEye 007 Nintendo 64 Community, GoldenEye X, Nintendo 64 Games Discussion

[Wreck]

As an alternative to changing the clipping to align with the portals, you can actually just reportal those sections. That's what I've been doing with Runway, and it eliminates the need to change tile positions. It also makes the floor show up properly, without disappearing from certain angles. The stupid mountains are another story, but with some extra visibility to force the rooms to load from inside each other (which they are already, so doesn't destroy framerate), and some fancy portal work, can make it look practically perfect.
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[MRKane]

To be honest, I'm cringing about the portal work. I know what it's going to take, and it'll be one junction at a time.

Interesting that nobody wants to fall to their death...

Although I might take creative liscence on some parts of the clipping (ie. the pillbox) because I hate getting caught on little edges while I'm playing the game.

Don't hold your breath. This one is going to take a while.
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No Mr. Bond, I expect you to be re-coded!

[Trevor]

Well I always dis-liked (though not hated) the "Invisible wall".
I think if your stupid enough to say "Oh what happens if I try and fall" then you deserve to die.

Its not as if the pit is there to sinically trap you, its got a clear way to get across, the bridge.

Maybe the original idea for the clipping in GE was to be like PD but they just couldn't at the time figure out how.

Its going to be insane with PDs clipping, the guard on the tower will see you before you get across the pit.

This idea people will hate but I think height in PDs clipping should count. Why can you "jump" off high ledges and survive? It should be "fall" off ledges higher than a story and die.

Trev
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[SubDrag]

I must admit, I think I'll have to use Rare's arguments here. It's just more fun to be unrealistic! Nobody likes to accidentally go too close to a cliff and fall off and have to restart the level. It just doesn't add anything and frustrates player.

Trevor wrote:

Well I always dis-liked (though not hated) the "Invisible wall". I think if your stupid enough to say "Oh what happens if I try and fall" then you deserve to die. Its not as if the pit is there to sinically trap you, its got a clear way to get across, the bridge. Maybe the original idea for the clipping in GE was to be like PD but they just couldn't at the time figure out how. Its going to be insane with PDs clipping, the guard on the tower will see you before you get across the pit. This idea people will hate but I think height in PDs clipping should count. Why can you "jump" off high ledges and survive? It should be "fall" off ledges higher than a story and die. Trev

[MRKane]

I'm inclined to agree. Given that it is a remake however, I was wondering if people would prefer to have it as an actual chasm.

Am having issues with using ramps in clipping though - not sure what the deal is there but am bound to sort it out (didn't there use to be a function in the editor that I can't find anymore?). Any quick fix for that that you can think of? I'm pretty sure it'll just be my poly order.

Also: do guards have to have linked clipping to "see" the player? Or is line of sight controlled by the level BSP? This might impact some of my design considerations.

Also not sure if anyone has noticed this before, but sometimes you "sink" into the clipping - just an odd little bug that I've noticed.
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No Mr. Bond, I expect you to be re-coded!

[SubDrag]

Tris don't need to be identically aligned in PD, unlike GE, so there's no longer a Stan Convert. Triangles are also not linked anymore, their algorithm is much more sophisticated (prob got fed up). Are you just unable to go up it? Can I see a picture in editor of the tiles.

The guards use the path set network to walk around and clipping walls also plays a part, sometimes bad clipping will disturb them though.

Not noticed sinking into clipping?

[MRKane]

Yeah - just can't walk up any of the ramps that I've created. Can go down them, but can't go up them. I'd almost be inclined to think that some of the walling could be to blame somehow (just what my gut says).

I'll try to compile everyting together and send it through to you via email (thanks to this sodding connection of mine) if I don't somehow get it resolved in the next few days. To be honest, the solution might be as simple as a tiny offset that allows the player to "jump" onto the ramp without falling through. There's a lot of messy stuff happening with the towers in the Dam.

As for "sinking" - I'm at a loss for this one. It's like the player is crouched, but there seems no reason for it to happen. I'll be tweaking some of the clipping layout to see if there's a reason why it's happening (perhaps an arrangement/too thin tris of some sort throws things out?).
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No Mr. Bond, I expect you to be re-coded!

[oldyz]

SubDrag wrote:

I must admit, I think I'll have to use Rare's arguments here. It's just more fun to be unrealistic! Nobody likes to accidentally go too close to a cliff and fall off and have to restart the level. It just doesn't add anything and frustrates player. Trevor wrote: Well I always dis-liked (though not hated) the "Invisible wall". I think if your stupid enough to say "Oh what happens if I try and fall" then you deserve to die. Its not as if the pit is there to sinically trap you, its got a clear way to get across, the bridge. Maybe the original idea for the clipping in GE was to be like PD but they just couldn't at the time figure out how. Its going to be insane with PDs clipping, the guard on the tower will see you before you get across the pit. This idea people will hate but I think height in PDs clipping should count. Why can you "jump" off high ledges and survive? It should be "fall" off ledges higher than a story and die. Trev

Olllllo here:

About Chasms & Pits -
one thing we have always enjoyed (oldyz, fumbles & I) - since Star wars Shadows of the empire (level: Gall Spaceport)- it to see an enemy fall to his death after being pushed/shot -

It is especially enjoyable if the said enemy is Human -
if this level is available for VR/combat simulator, it is imperative that pits & chasms throughout the GE levels become instruments of destruction -

Oldyz is on vancation : still can't do the duggie

[MRKane]

Well it's been weeks worth of work, but finally the clipping for the Dam is stable, and it's functional. There's still the odd little quirk (like areas that seem like you're crouching but you're not) however I can live with that!

Next job: secondaries, portals and extra visibility! Why all this sudden work? I've got a new job as a Technical Developer - so actually have time free in my life! You'd better hope I get it done before I get a girlfriend hehehe.
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No Mr. Bond, I expect you to be re-coded!

[Sogun]

MRKane wrote:

There's still the odd little quirk (like areas that seem like you're crouching but you're not)

Maybe I had a different issue but what I understand from your words is that the player is running through a plain surface but oddly he lows his stance a bit while keeping full speed, like there's some step or something.

If I remember well, there's a way to fix that. The places where you 'crouch' are clipping tris that aren't marked as 'walkable'. Try it, found one of those spots and check in editor (heh, I think there isn't a mark for that in editor. Just make it walkable even if it seems that the tri already is). Now load the level again and see if that spot is fixed.

Maybe you are running with a different issue. If that's so, just ignore this message.

[MRKane]

Cheers Sogun! I'll give that a crack! The locations where the issues are aren't what I'd call an issue, but we should strive toward perfection...hehehe

So I've not been able to find it, and I'll have to lower myself to asking: how do we tweak the transparency settings in the editor (to make the handrails) or is that something that a Hex editor is for?

Speaking of "perfection" I often wonder how the Dam level could be improved - trees, or snow perhaps?
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No Mr. Bond, I expect you to be re-coded!

[Sogun]

For transparencies, in Edit Rooms Positions, rightclick on a tri with a texture you want to be transparent and select 'Replace triangle/Group texture/Details'. There's a tab that says 'Transparent', just check it.

You'll probably want to uncheck the 'Cull back' tab so it remains 'Cull both sides' in order to apply the texture on both sides of the tri. You can apply these changes to all tris of the level (with same texture), all tris in a room, or only to the selected tri.

Ingame when you see different polys with transparencies one behind the other, sometimes you'll see the furthest object rendering in front of the nearest (it happens in the original game too, in Cradle if I'm not mistaken). To fix this you'll have to rightclick the tris you want to render first in Edit Room Positions and go to 'Triangle Tools' -> 'To end'. The 'end' tris are the first rendered in game, so maybe you will fix the issue from one point of view but not the other. It's up to you if you want to try it becuase it will take time and the result won't be perfect.
Now that I think of it, if it's Rare's original level it should be fine.

[Trevor]

HEHE, that would be cool, trees and snow, but wouldnt that slow it down?
But yeah, if not too bad on frame rate then Id say go for it

Trev
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[MRKane]

Cheers for the info! For the life of me I couldn't figure out what was meant to go where (doesn't help that my in-editor level textures are mainly just X X X everywhere [but as a developer I honestly thought nothing of it as it works in the game]).

Haven't even begun thinking about the Van yet...that's something that'll give you nightmares. Am quite tempted to get some of DetStars "little dreams about the beta level" into this build (ie. the grenades found under the hatch by the commander) as they weren't too bad despite them being complete fantasy.

Trees & Snow: Speed isn't an issue, I'll just cut out a few guards here and there "for the sake of the level" hehehehe.
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No Mr. Bond, I expect you to be re-coded!

[SubDrag]

Actually Sogun you have that backwards. The earlier tris are drawn first, then the later tris are drawn after. If you have things like decals, you will need to make sure they are at end of displaylist, and in right click menu choose Top Flag also (can have transparency as well). Also alpha must be secondary or it won't work. It's not as important for most models, as the game does do some of it, but for decals it is important.