GoldenEye 007 Nintendo 64 Community, GoldenEye X, Nintendo 64 Games Discussion

[EternallyAries]

Well i did not no you made it well done on the song and the run
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There totally nothing to read here.

[Dangerousd777]

If you open the MIDI with Notation Player you can get the entire notation of all the instrumentals, only the 'New Age' instrumental is of importance (the melody) unless you would like to add bass and drums: http://download.cnet.com/Notation-Player/3000-2139_4-10693923.html
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[PacmanPlush]

NapalNero wrote:

Dragonsbrethren wrote: Hah, that's the same site that claimed the actual citadel was fake: http://web.archive.org/web/20011212143122/qslaboratory.com/ge/fake.html Guess this guy's never heard of jpeg compression? That is an old post.. Det's old site was linked there.. even though Det was on his newer site when the citadel was found.. does that mean it was already around by 2001? or is taht just some random generated code or something.. Oh boy.. I'm confused

Howdy dudes!

I remember when Krijy announced he had discovered the Citadel, and I remember looking at his screenshots and feeling a sense of deja vu. The ramp tower, the flat walls, the strange pillars... I always had a feeling I'd seen the real Citadel years before Krijy released his code, and this proves it.

Look at the Wayback Machine's entries for www.qslaboratory.com. You'll see that the domain expired and the site went down in early 2004, around the time Krijy released his code.

However, the link posted earlier, with the pictures of the Citadel, existed in 2001. You can see that with this link:

http://web.archive.org/web/*/www.qslaboratory.com/ge/fake.html

These pictures came from The Terrorist's GoldenEye site, posted just months before he switched over to Detstar. As far as I can tell, he did not move these pictures to his new site, and they were lost when he changed the Geocities page to redirect to Detstar.

There is a link on this page (dated 2001):

http://web.archive.org/web/20010817011425/www.geocities.com/ace1062/citadel/thecitadel.html

that I am quite sure linked to these pictures, and many more like them. Unfortunately, this page does not exist in Wayback's archive. As I recall, Det said these "fake" images came from an anonymous e-mail. Det figured they had been Photoshopped together using textures and parts of levels from GoldenEye, or something to that effect.

In any case, it's clear that someone really did discover the Citadel before Krijy did, because those pictures are unmistakably the real level.

I'd contact Det to see if he still has the Geocities page backed up, but he seems to have disappeared.
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[SubDrag]

I'm pretty sure that that fake check came after Krijy, just the person was confused. And don't think it was Detstar.

[PacmanPlush]

Hi SubDrag!

I should know better than to disagree with a GE veteran such as yourself. No disrespect to Krijy, either- his work on PD is the stuff of legends, and it's thanks to him (and Zoinkity) that we can play Citadel. But it really does seem that these pictures existed before Krijy posted his code!

Firefox's Image Properties window shows the date and time an image was added to a server. So here, we can see Google Canada uploaded its current logo in October of 2009.



And here, we can see this Citadel picture was archived by the Wayback Machine in July of 2001, roughly three years before Krijy released his findings.



You can disregard what I said about Det's involvement if you wish- my memory could be spotty and there's no pictorial evidence to back up my claims. But this should make it clear that these images existed on the Internet before Krijy made his code public.
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[SubDrag]

I'll ask Klownicle, he ran Q's lab, I do not believe that these pictures were around before Krijy however and file times can be faked easily.

[PacmanPlush]

Sounds good, keep me posted.
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[Wreck]

Klownicle? Now's there a name I haven't heard in a while.
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[SubDrag]

I talked to Klownicle. He thought that Krijy posted those shots at GSCentral, and the Terrorist thought were fake and did some sort of image filter, but I guess eventually later with codes it was eventually believed. He did not remember well so it's hard to know the true story. I don't remember the "fake" pictures, so it's possible I ignored them because I knew codes were real, or missed it. It all sounds fuzzy and mixing time periods though.

I have archived Krijy's original post in GSCentral and it was dated Jan 20, 2004, so I do not know...

[NapalmNero]

I'd think the only reason he would keep them private was because he didn't know it was the Citadel until the time they were released to the public.
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Who?

[PacmanPlush]

SubDrag wrote:

I have archived Krijy's original post in GSCentral and it was dated Jan 20, 2004, so I do not know...

That's the only thing that has me questioning the source of the pictures. I agree with you that file times can be faked easily, but these pictures are available on the Internet Archive's snapshot of Klownicle's site, as it was in 2001. In this particular case, an incorrect time stamp simply could not happen, barring some glitch that had to have happened every time their bots archived the site. NapalNero suggests that Krijy made the pictures available years before the code; that he thought it was nothing significant at first. I think he’s selling Krijy short. Anyone that involved in the GE hacking community would surely know when they were looking at something special!

So, working under the (improbable, IMO) assumption that Krijy did take these pictures in 2001, I began wondering whether these pictures could've been taken with the code he posted on GSCentral, before the collision fixes.

(Inset images are from Q's Lab.)


I started with the lookout posts. Can't get high enough to see the top with the clipping as it is. However, a moonjump code will let you see this angle.


This shot is pretty much identical.


The famous ramp tower! Moving back even slightly obscured the entire room with a wall, so I couldn't get the right angle.


This was a surprise. I didn't notice anything wrong until I started setting up the shot. Something's missing, and I don't just mean the sky. The big white column is missing! Also, we can see whoever made these shots didn't load Citadel into Cradle like Krijy did, otherwise we would be able to see the drone gun and console. I should point out that Zoinkity's code repositions the white columns to the middle of the arena, meaning this shot should be possible with the finalized code.


I couldn't do anything for this room. Only one side lets you get far enough away to use the sniper rifle, while still being able to see the pillars. Trying to get the right angle means a wall blocks the shot. This is not the right angle but it's the best I could do. Again, the white columns are missing. Even more bizarre, so is the entire lower level! The lower level also seems to be missing in the ramp tower shot; we should be able to see most of it there, too.

If any of you techie guys know what’s up, I'm listening.
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[Dragonsbrethren]

The first codes released loaded the stage in different slots. I know Control was used, and judging from the sky I'm guessing Bunker 1 or Silo. That blue sky is the default for stages without a weather block. I'm pretty sure only one room could be loaded at a time, also.

Cradle's slot, used by the current codes, has global visibility, which is why you can see a lot more using that. Without it, we'd have only been able to see the rooms once we actually entered them. That explains why you're seeing a lot more in your shots than in the others.

[PacmanPlush]

That makes sense. Would also explain why the white columns don't show, if they're technically in another room- or maybe I'm completely off. Do you still have any of the earlier codes?

Edit: Found an earlier version of the code.

Krijy, at http://spong.com/forum/thread?message=222 wrote:

You can find a better explaination of the codes at: http://www.gscentral.com/vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=6500&perpage=30&pagenumber=1 That's where I originally posted the codes I hacked that allow you to see the secret BETA level: Citadel. There are also lots of codes being hacked that allow you to play 1 player mission levels in multiplayer, just like any other multiplayer level. See GoldenEye's Citadel in Multiplayer: (NTSC Gameshark code) 8002A8F7 0029, 8104468A 8970, 8104468E 8984 Hacked by me...

As far as I can tell, all this one does is load Citadel (inside Cradle) in place of every level you select- including multiplayer levels. The movement works differently; Bond floats higher in certain parts of the map and I can easily frame the lookout tower shot without moonjump. I can still see the white columns/lower level, so I'm guessing this isn't the original code?
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[Wreck]

I always remember the Citadel BG being used in replacement of the Cradle, which is why you could find Janus Special Forces, a computer and two ceiling mounted drone guns in the map. Those big white pillars are supposed to be in the basement room only, but are being drawn in other rooms - probably due to lack of portals. As Dragon said, the Cradle draws everything at one time, so that could be an issue there (though that should be BG specific). It could also be clipping related, however. If detected in certain room, can load others as well. It's hard to say for sure.
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[Dragonsbrethren]

If you look at the Citadel Found page on Detstar, there are some shots of it loaded in another stage. Looks to be Complex with the clouds disabled.

http://web.archive.org/web/20080611063733/goldeneye.detstar.com/citadelfound/index.asp

Those pyramidal pillars are only in the lowest "basement" area. Not much care was taken in making Citadel look like a believable place, considering how much they overlap the rooms above them (not to mention the lack of a ceiling). Of course, with functioning portals and without global visibility, you never see the overlap.