GoldenEye 007 Nintendo 64 Community, GoldenEye X, Nintendo 64 Games Discussion

[Bowser N64]

Hey I got a good idea last night while playing GoldenEye 007. Why not use my 4 MB expansion RAM to make GoldenEye run smoother and faster, like on emulatin? There a way to do that? I know there are Gameshark codes tot turn the Pak on or off. But any to maybe make me use ALL my RAM?
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[radorn]

extra ram won't make the game faster, man.
extra ram serves the purpose of allowing for more stuff to be used in a level.
more/better textures, higher resolution (at the cost of a lower fps, because RAM doesn't provide PROCESSING POWER), bigger levels, better sound samples... resuming, you can benefit from stuff that takes up space, but it won't make things faster unless a specific speed problem radicates on needing to load too many things from cart to memory too often because you don't have space to have them there from the start.

Additionally, games have to be specifically coded to use the extra ram, but it's not like it needs special code or anything like that. In the N64's memory map, when you add the expansion pak that memory is accessed just like the onboard memory. I'm not sure exactly what would take to make GE use the extra memory, but if it could be done it certainly would help a lot in making new maps and missions since you could add more different guards, special characters, objects, etc without hitting the limits since you'd have 4 extra megas to fit stuff.

the GS/AR codes you mention to "turn off" the expansion pak are actually needed for some games so they won't detect the extra ram and don't attempt to use it since PRO versions of the cheat device need to use the extra ram for the cheat engine and codes. If the game attempts to use it, the n64 will probably crash.

[Wreck]

A good example is Perfect Dark...
Bigger maps, more textures, voice-overs, secondary weapon functions, lots of guard head models, but a framerate that can often drop very dramatically. I've experienced far worse slowdown in PD than in GE. So that extra memory isn't enough to help in every way. The farther you push and the more data you're using, the harder it is to process. If you're not careful, that additional memory might be more of a negative than a plus. It's all about how you utilize it.
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[radorn]

Wreck wrote:

A good example is Perfect Dark... Bigger maps, more textures, voice-overs, secondary weapon functions, lots of guard head models, but a framerate that can often drop very dramatically. I've experienced far worse slowdown in PD than in GE. So that extra memory isn't enough to help in every way. The farther you push and the more data you're using, the harder it is to process. If you're not careful, that additional memory might be more of a negative than a plus. It's all about how you utilize it.

It's interesting how most of you NTSC users tend to say that PD lags more than GE. I don't know about other PAL users like me, but for me PD is faster than GE, at least with the high resolution option OFF.
Also, in GE slowdowns dramatically affected the fire rate while in PD automatics' shooting speed was more resistant to slowdowns (which makes me believe that GE's weapons timing was tied to the framerate while PD had some other, more optimized mechanism).
I may have to take out my N64 (its not currently connected) and thorougly verify this.
PD obviously has more complex stuff, but I'd say they also achieved a good level of optimization, although in some interview I remember having read they programmers said that GE was already quite close to the N64's limit.

[fantsu]

radorn wrote:

Wreck wrote: A good example is Perfect Dark... Bigger maps, more textures, voice-overs, secondary weapon functions, lots of guard head models, but a framerate that can often drop very dramatically. I've experienced far worse slowdown in PD than in GE. So that extra memory isn't enough to help in every way. The farther you push and the more data you're using, the harder it is to process. If you're not careful, that additional memory might be more of a negative than a plus. It's all about how you utilize it. It's interesting how most of you NTSC users tend to say that PD lags more than GE. I don't know about other PAL users like me, but for me PD is faster than GE, at least with the high resolution option OFF. Also, in GE slowdowns dramatically affected the fire rate while in PD automatics' shooting speed was more resistant to slowdowns (which makes me believe that GE's weapons timing was tied to the framerate while PD had some other, more optimized mechanism). I may have to take out my N64 (its not currently connected) and thorougly verify this. PD obviously has more complex stuff, but I'd say they also achieved a good level of optimization, although in some interview I remember having read they programmers said that GE was already quite close to the N64's limit.

GE is so much more laggy than PD in EVERY way. But I am PAL user also, maybe it works better for us. For example, explosions in GE made us to stop playing GE in multi with explosive weapons.

Interesting thing.


Last edited by fantsu on Wed May 27, 2009 7:20 am; edited 1 time in total

[Dragonsbrethren]

Maybe they optimized PD better for PAL, although I would imagine that since Rare is based in a PAL territory they would've put more effort into making GE work just as good on PAL consoles.

[DF Ank1]

Is there a way to make the Project 64 faster, because my goldeneye is very slowly ( it´s only goldeneye ) its very slowly until the level is loading, when i shot or make somethink new in the level, it freez and then it goes. I don´t know why is that so.
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[Bowser N64]

Hmm.... well I mean, your computer runs faster and more efficiently with more RAM. You have 256 MB of RAM. Try copying a 700 MB file! SLooooow. You have 2 GB of RAM. WAAAAAAAY faster. Seems that an N64 would work the same way. I believe my idea is possible If I could instruct the N64 to access the expansion as ONLY more RAM. And load what I WANT it to load into it. That way I could redirect the values that slow down Goldeneye dramatically, into it, for extra processing. this would be complicated of course. It has been said. anything is possible. One must only put their mind to it. It would be dreamy if I could play GoldenEye on my N64 at emulatin speed. Yeah right, it's not like I have 2 GB of RAM to work with here....only 8.
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[TimEh]

have fun learning assembly for the VR4300 and rewriting the game. But untill then, get as many plugins as you can find and test them all. Some work alot faster than others

[radorn]

Bowser N64 wrote:

Hmm.... well I mean, your computer runs faster and more efficiently with more RAM. You have 256 MB of RAM. Try copying a 700 MB file! SLooooow. You have 2 GB of RAM. WAAAAAAAY faster. Seems that an N64 would work the same way. I believe my idea is possible If I could instruct the N64 to access the expansion as ONLY more RAM. And load what I WANT it to load into it. That way I could redirect the values that slow down Goldeneye dramatically, into it, for extra processing. this would be complicated of course. It has been said. anything is possible. One must only put their mind to it. It would be dreamy if I could play GoldenEye on my N64 at emulatin speed. Yeah right, it's not like I have 2 GB of RAM to work with here....only 8.

Sorry to say but you are mixing concepts and making a fuss.
more ram in your PC make it faster -specially disk access- because, in a typical OS, large ammounts of ram are used for something called DISK CACHE. The more space there is available at any point for that disk cache, the closer the file access performance will be to the hardware's limitations.
Additionally, no matter how much ram you have because disk drives and all the hardware their data must travel through (the controllers, chipset, memory controller, buses...) have their own limitations which can't be surpassed. RAM helps getting there, but other factors wheigh in for the final result.

Now; disk caches are not used in N64 games (or any other game console... at least earlier than the xbox, and I doubt it's used there either, alñthough it has a PC like architecture and a MS OS so who knows...). There's no need for such a thing in a machine a programmer can fully control and in which there are no other apps running concurrently.
In videogames for dedicated systems, programmers have full control over the hardware (as far as the devkit allows) and manually or programatically specify what is loaded in ram at each point of the game. A disk cache is not useful in such a scenario and would yield worse results since you'd be wasting the scarce resources available in useless things.

[fantsu]

radorn wrote:

Bowser N64 wrote: Hmm.... well I mean, your computer runs faster and more efficiently with more RAM. You have 256 MB of RAM. Try copying a 700 MB file! SLooooow. You have 2 GB of RAM. WAAAAAAAY faster. Seems that an N64 would work the same way. I believe my idea is possible If I could instruct the N64 to access the expansion as ONLY more RAM. And load what I WANT it to load into it. That way I could redirect the values that slow down Goldeneye dramatically, into it, for extra processing. this would be complicated of course. It has been said. anything is possible. One must only put their mind to it. It would be dreamy if I could play GoldenEye on my N64 at emulatin speed. Yeah right, it's not like I have 2 GB of RAM to work with here....only 8. Sorry to say but you are mixing concepts and making a fuss. more ram in your PC make it faster -specially disk access- because, in a typical OS, large ammounts of ram are used for something called DISK CACHE. The more space there is available at any point for that disk cache, the closer the file access performance will be to the hardware's limitations. Additionally, no matter how much ram you have because disk drives and all the hardware their data must travel through (the controllers, chipset, memory controller, buses...) have their own limitations which can't be surpassed. RAM helps getting there, but other factors wheigh in for the final result. Now; disk caches are not used in N64 games (or any other game console... at least earlier than the xbox, and I doubt it's used there either, alñthough it has a PC like architecture and a MS OS so who knows...). There's no need for such a thing in a machine a programmer can fully control and in which there are no other apps running concurrently. In videogames for dedicated systems, programmers have full control over the hardware (as far as the devkit allows) and manually or programatically specify what is loaded in ram at each point of the game. A disk cache is not useful in such a scenario and would yield worse results since you'd be wasting the scarce resources available in useless things.

word.

Last edited by fantsu on Wed May 27, 2009 7:18 am; edited 1 time in total

[Bowser N64]

Okay, If I am making a fuss I might as well not post at all. I was only saying something in reply. But if you guys want to prove me wrong with everything I say, fine...
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[Wreck]

There's some guys on here who have alot of technical know-how. I know it'd be nice to get a better performance out of your N64, but forcing the extra RAM to be used doesn't seem to be the way. No one is trying to prove you wrong, they're just telling you what they know.
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[radorn]

Bowser N64, why are you saying that?
You proposed something and I'm just explaining you why that's not going to work. I'm just trying to help.
I saw you were interested in stuff I know something about and thought you'd appreciate I shared it with you. But, if you prefer, I'll refrain from replying to anything you say from now on, after all it takes some time and effort to write up these things and if it's not going to be appreciated I'd better not do it, you know?

Anyway, for a last (unasked for) bit of advice.

The way to make GE faster on hardware would be to make a more powerful but compatible N64 clone, making the components more powerful but keeping the clock speeds since many games rely on them tigh timings and changing speeds would change the game (like how GE runs in fast motion when you overclock an n64). In a way, this is more or less what happens on an emulator.
Designing hardware is an extremely difficult task in itself. Moreover, there's no full knowledge of how the n64 works yet, specially the RCP which is a custom chip on which there's almost no documentation available, although there are people reverse engineering it now.

Another way would be to attempt to somehow optimize the code further.
About this one, it's possibly as hard or even harder than the other, since GE is already a highly optimized piece of software, that took years to code, optimize and debug by an extremely talented team of programmers who had access to then state of the art computers and, more importantly, official development equipment and software from Nintendo accompained with official support and even help from Shigeru Miyamoto (apparently a lover of FPS's, but a self declared bad player), who loved the game and got personally involved in the development of the game somehow.
Rare, at least back then, was known for taking the most out of the hardware they programmed for through getting involved with it down to the most basic level possible. They got to be a second party of Nintendo when they themselves sent them a demo game they made after they got some Famicoms and started to experiment with them on their own.

[Dragonsbrethren]

radorn wrote:

About this one, it's possibly as hard or even harder than the other, since GE is already a highly optimized piece of software, that took years to code, optimize and debug by an extremely talented team of programmers who had access to then state of the art computers and, more importantly, official development equipment and software from Nintendo accompained with official support and even help from Shigeru Miyamoto (apparently a lover of FPS's, but a self declared bad player), who loved the game and got personally involved in the development of the game somehow. Rare, at least back then, was known for taking the most out of the hardware they programmed for through getting involved with it down to the most basic level possible. They got to be a second party of Nintendo when they themselves sent them a demo game they made after they got some Famicoms and started to experiment with them on their own.

You know, I can't help but wonder if this is why Nintendo was uncooperative about the XBLA release of GoldenEye. I had no idea a higher-up like Miyamoto was involved in the game's development. I never knew that he was into FPS's either. That explains why he convinced Retro Studios to convert Metroid Prime from a hard to control third person game to a first person game with excellent controls (a brilliant move). Now we just need a first person Zelda game...