GoldenEye 007 Nintendo 64 Community, GoldenEye X, Nintendo 64 Games Discussion

[monkeyface]

Hello,
I'm working on a CS patch for Goldeneye, and I'm planning to include a selection of famous "small" maps and funyard-maps. The first map that I'm implementing is fy_iceworld, everything has been running smoothly and it even starts up when you choose to play it with the emulator, except for one thing, you can barely move. This is obviously due to bad clipping but I have no clue on how to fix it. I have tried several solutions, constructing the floor with one big brush, or making it up with 100 small ones, I even tried triangulating the floor myself in Hammer and it still doesn't work. In-game you never get further than a step or two.

This is how it looks when I convert the floor to clipping:



This is when I use "Stan Convertor Current." Other than "fixing tris" I have no idea what it does. But obviously something is wrong with my geometry.



Help me out, and in due time I will contribute with a fine multiplayer patch. Also, thank you for a very fine hacking site and well-worked out documentation!

Last edited by monkeyface on Thu Apr 10, 2008 5:38 am; edited 2 times in total

[r.e.l. 237]

did u redo clipping connections?

[SubDrag]

Hmm, what I think is happening, is your level really, really tiny? I think it had to round and things went nuts? The Stan Convertor seemed to do a decent job,but it looks like it got massacred here. You could try just redo clipping connections first but usually not good enough.

[r.e.l. 237]

hey i just wanted to use this thread to ask about a clipping problem im having as well. i am trying to clip a ladder (the one in my wizard map) but not by setting it to ladder mode, instead selecting the tiles and linking all points so you can go up and down the ledge instantly, but when i stan convert it disconnects the points.. any idea why?

i can post a screen if necessary, and btw this method has worked for another of my maps on an incline

[zoinkity]

It's a matter of distance. The stan convert conciders any vertical distance over a certain amount to be a 'wall', and so it deletes it. This isn't a bug; it was added particularly to deal with PD's clipping format.


Also, I may add that if you do not ladder it and the ledge is over a certain height players will need to use the 'facility bathroom trick' to get up the ledge. By default, all distances over a certain (unknown) amount are concidered too far to instantly climb.
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[r.e.l. 237]

hmmm i see.. so do i link the points and set it to ladder clipping?

[r.e.l. 237]

hey i dont want to be an annoyance but i was wondering if there was a way to undo something in room positions. i keep moving the room by mistake when i do clipping and i cant undo it so i have to start all over if i dont save continually. any way that can be incorporated? and thanks a bunch subdrag for the hotkey, it is sooooooo much faster now

[monkeyface]

SubDrag wrote:

Hmm, what I think is happening, is your level really, really tiny? I think it had to round and things went nuts? The Stan Convertor seemed to do a decent job,but it looks like it got massacred here. You could try just redo clipping connections first but usually not good enough.

The corridors are not that tiny, especially if you compare to corridors in already existent GE-maps. Would the clipping be fine if I enlarged the map? Redoing clipping connections seemingly never works. Maybe it correct some things but you can't actually see it in the map. Do you have any other ideas as to what it could be?

[SubDrag]

I think if you enlarged the map the problem would stop occurring. at least I hope so, and you're using a later version of the editor.

[zoinkity]

It may be unweildly to design in, but the editor works best when fractional distances don't exist. Like, 1 unit is the smallest unit in the stage, so you scale the stage to 100%.

All clipping use integer values between 32767 to -32768 - decimals are non-existant. The smaller it is, the more difficult it will be to split and contort tiles to fit within the model.
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[radorn]

Now that we are talking about it.

Do these units have a standard measure?

I know everything in a 3D CG space is virtual and there's no real "dimension" to them unless you assign them. But, if you were to assign them some real dimension, what would it be?

I ask, because I have to know how much precission I should give to my models so they adjust well to goldeneye's "grid".

If nothing else, a reference measure would be nice, like "bond is x units tall" or any other reference that may be useful to estimate measures in that virtual world.

[SubDrag]

I think Bond was about 15 units tall? Just guessing. But yeah, make sure your level is unit aligned. Otherwise clipping gets rounded.

[radorn]

only 15? that's pretty low precision.
Is there a way to measure things (bg, clipping, objets, characters, whatever), in units, with the editor?

[SubDrag]

I don't have a great way, except clicking on "wall points", writing down the x,y,z of each click and subtracting them to the find the distance.

[zoinkity]

Everything that is not directly affected by scale is already in the basic 'unit'. If the stage scale is set to 1.0, then essentially you are viewing it in 'units'. Regardless the actual stage scale, if you load a setup and define the scale on that screen it will force the visual window to display at the given percentage.

Annoyingly there isn't a base value, since objects are themselves scaled, as is the stage and various other things. I'd assume for generating a stage that units would be either centimeters or decimeters, depending on the precision you wish to allow. MultiGen (the original development software) uses multiples of meters as the base logic for its size divisions. Why? It's easy to do the math ;*)
[nerd note: you may remember MultiGen as the platform Homeworld was built with...]

++++++++++
On a side note, walls are also rounded to the nearest unit with the same range as clipping. There's a reason why the tile points mirror the format for display list points. Except for portals, everything gets rounded to the nearest integer, which may account for gaps in people's generated models, by the way.
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