GoldenEye 007 Nintendo 64 Community, GoldenEye X, Nintendo 64 Games Discussion

[Dragonsbrethren]

I looked into why Jonathan was targeted as an ally in The Duel a while back and could never figure anything out. The character object wasn't doing it, the action blocks didn't seem to be doing it, although SubDrag hadn't made as much progress with those back then and there were more unknowns. Still, nothing I tweaked seemed to do anything. I put figuring it out off to the side and promptly forgot about it.

The bug/oversight got brought up the other day over at TCRF and I decided to have a look into it again. First up, Jon's behavior hasn't changed in any of the game's revisions, although the Japanese version does remove his surname, since the plot point about him being Joanna's brother had already been dropped. More actions have been filled in now, but the other characters are pretty much the same; Jon does some more running and crouching (probably to represent him being a stealth specialist), but there are no obvious differences.

Then on a hunch, thinking it had to be the character, I replaced his models (but not the actual character object) with another Trent Easton. Shockingly enough, he killed me the second I was in his sight. I put Jon back, couldn't hit me again. I put Trent's head on Jon's body and he could kill me. Put Jon's head on the dataDyne goon's body and he couldn't hit me. It's his head.

In short: Jonathan's head is hardcoded to target like an ally.

I haven't tested to see if this applies to any other friendly characters outside of the President (whom it doesn't, he targets red and will happily blast you).

[SubDrag]

I never knew this, but you're quite right. I investigated a bit more too. I could fix a ROM, to make them not special, if you want, but here's the locations:

Jonathan checks
7F04ABDC/7F04ABF4
7F04AB24/7F04AB3C - Jonathan aimer color check
7F031678 28, 13

7F05A408 on Death, 5, F, 3A, 28, checks if sound bank too I think, needs to use (00 F538 - 00 F6A8: Caroll, Elvis, Civilians, etc.)

You're right, he's far more interesting when he can actually shoot you instead of missing badly heh.

The only previous one I was aware of, was the Skedar hardcoded guard id (not head), which in counterop mode turns into hardcoded mr blonde.

Also interesting, is that in the setup file, the guards have the "Allow counterop" flag on. Perhaps at some point intended to be counterop, did anybody ever try that with counterop?

[Dragonsbrethren]

I saw the counter-op flag too and it didn't raise any suspicions because I could've sworn you could play The Duel in counter-op normally. Never dawned on me that you can't (the action blocks also do the standard set up stuff for co-op, so it should work there, although the guards made use of Joanna's ID for some things instead of the shared ID for players.)

I just checked out A51 Escape's set up and Jonathan doesn't have the ally/blue crosshair flag set there. He does in CI Defense (the first one I looked at). I wonder why they hardcoded him, if it gives him any different behavior than the flag would.

[SubDrag]

I did try it in counterop - it does work, but player two oddly spawns outside the area, and does not control this special guy. If the door were unlocked he could help heh.

[Rey]

On the info place,when you go to of the people. I always wondered why his body was switched to the one in area 51. With the brown on.
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[acceptable67]

Rey wrote:

On the info place,when you go to of the people. I always wondered why his body was switched to the one in area 51. With the brown on.

Think they put that so they could emphasize that he was 'Undercover', not just in the Pilot uniform but the Area 51 Guard uniform as well.
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Rare wrote:

Perfect Dark Forever.

[Dragonsbrethren]

That could be, but it could also be that they simply forgot to update his appearance in his bio. He may have worn the guard armor at one point, it's one of the earlier guard models.

[acceptable67]

Dragonsbrethren wrote:

That could be, but it could also be that they simply forgot to update his appearance in his bio. He may have worn the guard armor at one point, it's one of the earlier guard models.

Yeah, you're right. Plausible.
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Rare wrote:

Perfect Dark Forever.

[Kerr Avon]

This is very interesting, and it's great that even after all these years, we're still learning new things about PD!

Dragonsbrethren wrote:

The bug/oversight got brought up the other day over at TCRF...

I didn't know what TCRF is, so I Googled it (you have to love Google, it makes finding out things so easy ) and found out what it is (The Cutting Room Floor, for anyone else who doesn't know, a site about cut/disabled ingame content), it looks like a very interesting site, but if I could make one suggestion about the PD page on there - it says "Most shockingly, Joanna Dark is now Asian!". I know that's not meant to be offensive, but some people might consider it so (you know how touchy some people can be where the slightest hint of racism can be (wrongly) inferred). I think it would be better if it were changed to "The most noticeable changes is that Joanna Dark is now Asian", to prevent anyone from reading anything bad into the wording of the sentence.

Regarding the cut "Touch that Box" game mode, it would probably have been similar to the Uplink mode in The World is Not Enough, or Domination on Unreal Tournament, and neither of these modes in these games are fun, I if you ask me (I love all of the other modes in UT, and most modes in TWINE), so I personally don't care that it's not in PD. I'd have preferred Rare to have added the GE weapons to PD's multiplayer mode (does anyone know why they didn't?).

[zoinkity]

Amazingly GE weapons do appear in beta MP pics, including the ones set in the back rooms of Area 51. Didn't look like sims could use them then either, so maybe they just didn't feel like debugging something?

Could speculate on that all day. They did specify about the coloration thing in touch that box at some point; Sub probably has that interview stashed away somewhere. They also specificly said it wasn't very fun (possibly quote).


There's a few other places like TCRF. http://www.unseen64.net/ uses an article format versus the wiki format. There isn't really a collection of everything in one place, and half of it can be taken with a grain of salt.
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[Dragonsbrethren]

Yeah, I've been doing a lot with the PD TCRF article, a good amount of that is my work. The GoldenEye article used to be pretty atrocious; I cut a lot of the speculative BS out, but it could still use some work and some prettier screenshots. I'll get on that one of these days after I'm done with PD's unused objects/pads.

Anyway, here's an official Touch-That-Box answer, GE weapons are mentioned too:

Quote:

Q: What happened to the multiplayer options that we heard about but didn't make the final cut? Touch That Box, Floodlights, Destroyable Walls... A: Some were dropped because they weren't good enough (Touch That Box), others were just placeholders and never got done. Either that or they were considered too sparkly and lovely for anyone but super special people, who have a limited run of beta-PD cartridges. In a pig's arse.

http://web.archive.org/web/20020819223002/www.rareware.com/the_site/rare_games/new_games_digest/pd_digest/pd_rm_copy.html

Last edited by Dragonsbrethren on Sat Feb 09, 2013 10:37 am; edited 1 time in total

[Borman]

The biggest problems with both sites is that the people can make illogical assumptions about things as fact rather than playing it cautious, and being honest when something is unsure. Everything has to be a big discovery

[Dragonsbrethren]

The thing I like about TCRF is that it's supposed to be evidence-based, so as long as you have guys who know the history of the game contributing, a lot of the speculation gets replaced with actual interesting facts. One thing I dislike about it is that there isn't enough sourcing for those facts: I've started to change that a bit on my articles, linking to pages like that one at Rare and other interviews.

[zoinkity]

I guess one of the issues is that TCRF is sourced by Jul, and your opinion of each is directly relative to your opinion of that community.

(Pointless banter follows:)

The issue with ROM hacking is that it is original research. The wiki format wasn't designed with that in mind. Wikipedia itself looks unfavorably on original research and expects all facts to be based on 'popular' answers, regardless of truth. That's why you can only mostly trust Wikipedia.
How that extends to wikis is another story. Wikipedia wants them to be as similiar to the wikipedia proper as possible, down to style. Communities may or may not adhere to this.
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