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MRKane
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 PostPosted: Fri Apr 29, 2022 2:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

Rare usually used mipmapped textures for characters, sort of as a matter of habit. Just if they don't have mips they really should be set off to display correctly. I know it's technically bad practice for the visuals, but I'm playing to a style here Smile
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NightSkiesPony
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 PostPosted: Tue May 03, 2022 1:30 pm    Post subject: GLTF support/observations Reply with quote Back to top

GLTF/observations
Hi,

Could we add GLTF/GTB support for characters/rigs/models/animations? This is a modern format that I believe is well documented. FBX is very old and I have trouble importing and exporting to GE Edit even with a paid $ blender "Better FBX importer/exporter" plugin. It imports fine, but on export it breaks all animations from the same imported model.

*Observations*: I think there is something going on with why animations break. If I take a GE character, apply the armature deform, then re-apply the deformer, the mesh part often moves. For some reason the "rest pose" of the armature is all the bone points in the center of the model, and this causes them to mangle wierdly into a little + shape'd character. I believe this is the base mesh structure, and when you apply the bone deforms to it, it unfolds into the real character.
Now when you *undo* that base mesh structure and instead make a nice H pose with the bones applied to it, the animations all break because it acts like each bone started at 0,0,0 and was moved to the current positions. You end up with the animated arms nad legs stretched out wierdly.

Any idea why this kind of thing happens, and how to avoid it? I'm not sure how to make the "rest pose" all the bones at 0,0,0 again. If I could do that, I'm sure the animations on existing characters would not break.

Of course this problem is sidestepped if you are making all new characters and all new animations. The model import/export is working, but the animations are just broken because of the bones having been moved in the data.

Anyways

best of luck
if this were open source I'd consider helping out.

Thanks

Night
 
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SubDrag
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 PostPosted: Tue May 03, 2022 3:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

I'm not familiar with gltf, but the fbx to geobj convertor is open source. I imagine the issue is blender but it is true that it is harder to use fbx without autodesk products.

https://github.com/jombo23/N64-Tools/tree/master/objtoan8
(geobj specification is in the readme too)

This tool converts various formats into geobj which is what editor imports. So you would just need to support gltf to geobj in there either modifying this tool or making your own.

Obj2an8 does support overriding skeleton, for example to the original obj, which in some cases can fix that issue, assume rotations at joint are correct but the hierarchy of joints is not.

EDIT: Enabled gltf/glb import in assimp (reads variety of model imports) in obj2an8 and unsurprisingly it doesn't work from a Blender export. Gets a vertice out of bounds for Blender importing Object0000.obj (the alarm) and exporting glb. Frankly, I'd blame Blender, though hard to tell if glbs are correct since are binary, and Blender does manage to reimport the glb. Most problems are caused by Blender why you can't get workflows working. Softimage XSI 7.5 Mod Tool is what I use for most of my tests (use the old FBX format).

I think ultimately people find a way with Obj2an8 to convert to geobj...dae, FBX convertors, etc. I think the Smash 64 team has a variety of paths, though perhaps mainly Maya, not sure, but maybe they should pool the "valid" scenarios (may not be identical for GoldenEye). Looking over gltf it doesn't seem like a great interchange format, not simple, and lots of embedding and binary objects. Hopefully you find a viable path.
 
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SubDrag
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 PostPosted: Wed May 04, 2022 2:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

I think all the problems stem from Blender export, not the formats...frankly. You will have to come up with some sets of tools that make animations and models work.

For example, this is a valid convertor to gltf 2, and importing to blender loses textures, though still shows animations, and re-exporting to FBX or DAE seems to screw up the axes for animation, even though Y-Up, Z-Forward export, for example. The issues all seem Blender related.
https://github.com/facebookincubator/FBX2glTF/releases
 
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MRKane
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 PostPosted: Wed May 04, 2022 8:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

TLDR: Blender users need better tools, and to throw money at someone trustworthy to develop said tools.

I'm inclined to agree with Sub here - I've been in communication with the guy who developed the Better FBX importer/exporter and he's truly a great guy! The issue I experience with the FBX format is that there are little extras in it that other software just doesn't support - frustratingly there's not really a good format that'll do everything we want here and be widely accepted either.

Even plugging raw blender files into the open-source Obj2An8 is fraught with issues so I discarded that as an option. What I did do, was ask some of the people I work with to try and help me with finding a good workflow for using with the editor and we found that they had difficulty importing the editors FBX files into Maya even - something they thought might be a versioning issue, and we were unsuccessful there.

I do have a crippled Blender 2.79 workflow that managed to spit something out but not without a lot of wrangling, thus I considered it to be an unsuitable option given the number of assets that Dark Noon needed developed.

I did pay someone to bring the GEObj importer either up to spec, or to remake it for Blender 2.8 - they took the money and ran and I just don't have the time or knowledge to develop the plugin myself sadly. I even went as far as looking at Unity as an intermediate option as I'm fluent in C#, but that workflow wasn't suitable for a full 360 out of the editor, into Blender, and then back into the editor.

Eventually I simply gave up, concluding that Perfect Dark was just too difficult to work with. Since then a few of the community talked me around to trying the Goldeneye engine which is significantly simplified, but that just reduces the amount of necessary wrangling.
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NightSkiesPony
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 PostPosted: Wed May 04, 2022 9:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

MRKane wrote:
TLDR: Blender users need better tools, and to throw money at someone trustworthy to develop said tools.

I'm inclined to agree with Sub here - I've been in communication with the guy who developed the Better FBX importer/exporter and he's truly a great guy! The issue I experience with the FBX format is that there are little extras in it that other software just doesn't support - frustratingly there's not really a good format that'll do everything we want here and be widely accepted either.

...


I was about to give up too, but I did find that "Better FBX importer/exporter" seems to work fine, except for messing up the animations. If you are doing 100% new characters and animations, you won't have this problem.
See this post: http://www.shootersforever.com/forums_message_boards/viewtopic.php?p=75508&sid=125411b13176bb913d7fb6d9c44f722c#75508

I think I'll try the above advice of obj2ani or something. Maybe it fixes the final problem I was having with export->import->export flow with blender.
 
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NightSkiesPony
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 PostPosted: Wed May 04, 2022 9:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

Also I agree blender's export/import formats leave something to be desired, but I think blender is a good tool used by many. Should be some way to support it? I fear maya being inaccessible cost-wise. But also I'm just really used to blender...
 
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NightSkiesPony
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 PostPosted: Wed May 04, 2022 10:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

SubDrag wrote:
Obj2an8 does support overriding skeleton, for example to the original obj, which in some cases can fix that issue, assume rotations at joint are correct but the hierarchy of joints is not.


This didnt seem to work

1. export CdaltonZ.fbx from Model Editor from PerfectEditor (Perfect Dark)
2. import using better fbx importer/exporter to blender, then export. Found some settings that seemed to work, can post them if need be.
3. use obj2ani to replace skeleton from CdaltonZ.fbx (using an exported obj didnt work).
4. Animations still messed up
When I used a skeleton .obj the model was visibly distorted in the model editor afterwards. Limbs stretched outwards.
 
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MRKane
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 PostPosted: Wed May 04, 2022 11:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

To fix the animations and rigging with the Better FBX plugin, please note that I'm writing this from memory so it's probably wrong in one of the steps:
-export as a dae file as this scrubs a lot of the finicky position information
-when importing check "fix bone positions", and uncheck "automatic bone orientation" to get bones as joints
-select each of the imported mesh objects and clear the transform while keeping position, then apply the armature modifier, then clear the object parent while keeping the transformation
-go into pose mode for the armature and apply the pose position as rest position to correct the zeroing of the armature while in edit mode
-reapply the meshes to the armature and don't worry, they'll have kept the vertex assignments

The core issue with the animations is that not many programmes respect the bone offsets field in the FBX format - and there's no 'rest pose' written on import. I don't know if this is a FBX thing.
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NightSkiesPony
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 PostPosted: Fri May 06, 2022 4:11 pm    Post subject: Blender import export process Reply with quote Back to top

MRKane wrote:
To fix the animations and rigging with the Better FBX plugin, please note that I'm writing this from memory so it's probably wrong in one of the steps:
-export as a dae file as this scrubs a lot of the finicky position information
-when importing check "fix bone positions", and uncheck "automatic bone orientation" to get bones as joints
-select each of the imported mesh objects and clear the transform while keeping position, then apply the armature modifier, then clear the object parent while keeping the transformation
-go into pose mode for the armature and apply the pose position as rest position to correct the zeroing of the armature while in edit mode
-reapply the meshes to the armature and don't worry, they'll have kept the vertex assignments

The core issue with the animations is that not many programmes respect the bone offsets field in the FBX format - and there's no 'rest pose' written on import. I don't know if this is a FBX thing.


This absolutely worked (made instructions plus my mods to it)

1. export as a dae file (from model editor)
2. when importing check "fix bone positions", and uncheck "automatic bone orientation" to get bones as joints. Bones should import as a sideways H, not with all bones at the center in object mode (show bone names in armature options to see this in object mode (in edit mode they will still be at 0 at this point before we've fixed it).
X (I would skip this. I found this not necessary and the scale messed things up) select each of the imported mesh objects and clear the rotation and scale transform while keeping position transform
3. Apply the armature modifier to each mesh part by selecting all of the imported mesh objects and choose Object->Convert->Mesh.
4. select all the imported mesh objects clear the object parent while keeping the transformation
5. (this is very key) go into pose mode for the armature and apply the pose position as rest position to correct the zeroing of the armature while in edit mode. The rest pose and pose position will now be the same. Before rest pose was all bones at 0. Now its fixed.
6. Room4B_primary (low res hips) doesnt come attached to the armature and always needs weight painting to a vertex group named 1 (for bone 1, hips), at least in the usual player models.
7. reapply the meshes to the armature and don't worry, they'll have kept the vertex assignments. No need to parent them to the armature.
8. On Better FBX export, all default options, except turn on "Include Armature Deform Modifier"

Would be nice to have a workflow for non-paid blender plugin, but this plugin is only $28.


Last edited by NightSkiesPony on Fri May 06, 2022 11:55 pm; edited 1 time in total
 
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NightSkiesPony
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 PostPosted: Fri May 06, 2022 4:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

Archived tihs to a separate post for anyone searching for a solution to this

http://www.shootersforever.com/forums_message_boards/viewtopic.php?p=75522#75522
 
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Aeronye
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 PostPosted: Sun May 08, 2022 4:02 am    Post subject: [Request] Hide/show certain rooms in editing Reply with quote Back to top

Hi to everyone.


Is it possible to add a function that consists of hiding and showing certain rooms by selecting in Edit?

Ideally it could be done with a select box.

Thanks in advance.
 
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SubDrag
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 PostPosted: Sun May 08, 2022 5:11 am    Post subject: Re: [Request] Hide/show certain rooms in editing Reply with quote Back to top

Aeronye wrote:
Hi to everyone.


Is it possible to add a function that consists of hiding and showing certain rooms by selecting in Edit?

Ideally it could be done with a select box.

Thanks in advance.


You can hide individual triangles (H normally) and show again is Shift-H. So could select a whole room and then hide.

Also the project format supports including rooms that are not shown.
In the ini/pgproj for them, add a line like
hideRooms=85,86,87
for example, which is comma separated hex rooms. When you open, it won't render them, but will save with those rooms (they exist).
 
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Lazlo52
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 PostPosted: Sun Jun 05, 2022 10:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

Would it be possible to add a way to export/import Cover Pads specifically, without affecting regular pads? I've done some modding with GoldenEye X and I think the team would benefit from the Cover Pads I've set up for the handful of levels I've added them to. However, it would not benefit them to have to sort through the regular pads I've added on my own whim.

I...do realize now I could export my pads, copy the Cover Pads from there, send it to Wreck, and ask him to export his pads and paste mine into his text file. But, that's quite a round trip that'll be repeated several times. It would be best to have a single button to export and import Cover Pads.
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SubDrag
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 PostPosted: Sun Jun 05, 2022 1:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

Lazlo52 wrote:
Would it be possible to add a way to export/import Cover Pads specifically, without affecting regular pads? I've done some modding with GoldenEye X and I think the team would benefit from the Cover Pads I've set up for the handful of levels I've added them to. However, it would not benefit them to have to sort through the regular pads I've added on my own whim.

I...do realize now I could export my pads, copy the Cover Pads from there, send it to Wreck, and ask him to export his pads and paste mine into his text file. But, that's quite a round trip that'll be repeated several times. It would be best to have a single button to export and import Cover Pads.


Yeah you can just export/import the combined text and merge. But ok I updated with separated import/export for 00 presets/27 presets for GE/PD.
 
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