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[Map] Egyptian Temple - Nov 9th, 2010
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zoinkity
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 PostPosted: Thu Apr 01, 2010 6:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

In PD you can always use inverted tiles to act as ceiling. You bounce off it, in a way.
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 PostPosted: Fri Apr 02, 2010 6:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

bounce? :S
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 PostPosted: Fri Apr 02, 2010 10:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

Probably like smacking your head off of the ceiling and preventing you from seeing through the above architecture. I have to check it out shortly, see where they do this. It'd be very helpful in certain places.
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Wreck
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 PostPosted: Wed May 26, 2010 12:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

After many tests, comparisons, re-saving old files, and testing again, I finally got a simulant to enter the Golden Gun room. Any time he requires armour, he either heads in there, or cuts down the hall and heads for the other one. I haven't added the drop to the outside yet, but at least some progress has been made. Sims will no longer refuse to go inside, and will be able to move when spawning there.

Edit: I've got them using the drop, but they also seem to think that they can make it into the room from the bottom floor. They go to the pad position and dance around on the spot. I'm wondering if the connection has to be made one-way only somehow. That'd make sense.

Edit ii: Not connecting everything together between sets causes the game to crash as the sim is dropping down. I got him to do it once, but all attempts since then has resulted in a frozen screen. The drop points are cross-linked in the other PD setups, judging from Temple, so something else must let the simulant know they can't go up. Maybe it has to do with how the sets are constructed? How many are in the set, what it connects to, etc?

Edit iii: I really don't understand why the game keeps crashing. It almost seems like some totally random thing triggers it. Sometimes it'll freeze almost immediately after you start the map, and other times you can play it for a minute or so. It doesn't matter where the sim is at all. He could be nowhere near the path network sets that were (only slightly) altered. It's making it very difficult to keep testing, and is only causing frustration. I see no issues with my sets, so I don't know what's going on.
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Dragonsbrethren
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 PostPosted: Thu May 27, 2010 5:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

Yeah, PD's path network is really tricky compared to GE. I thought I'd have them up and running in no time, but I just kept running into problems like you're describing. No crashes, but I thought I had dropoffs figured out, only to have them try to climb up them again. Not only that, they just go nuts if there are two path networks overlapping.
 
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 PostPosted: Thu May 27, 2010 7:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

I'm really confused as to where the problem may lie. I've had success, where the sim will run up the stairs, follow me into the room, go through the doors and fall off the drop. I've also had it where the game will freeze when he goes to drop off, but I had remedied that. But now, it's like the game crashes randomly. The guy could be almost anywhere in the map and it'll still happen. It isn't the setup file, as the original pad file (unaltered from GE:X preview patch) works fine with it. There's just something amiss with the pads. It really becomes frustrating when you don't know what the issue is. I can't even tell if my alterations do anything, since it locks up way too frequently.
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 PostPosted: Sun Sep 26, 2010 7:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

Update: I took some time to look back into the path network extension today.

The first thing I did was expand on the stairwells. I noticed that Sims would often get stuck at either the top or bottom, waiting to make direct eye contact with the player. The original networks connected through floors and ceilings. I added in more pads, preventing architecture from obstructing their vision. Seems to work much better now, and they have no trouble traveling up and down them, even backwards. Razz

The big issue was with the Golden Gun floor tile maze room. Sims couldn't enter into this area, and were frozen in place when they'd spawn inside. I included a few pads and connected them to the outside hallway. Sims are now able to traverse this area of the map without issue.

Now, there are still a few sections that require addressing. The drops and shoots, to be more precise. I don't think the shoots will be difficult to incorporate, but the drops are a bit more tricky. My last attempts either ended in crashing matches, or a Sim trying to scale a wall. Hopefully I can figure out the problem and complete this network once and for all.
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00action
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 PostPosted: Sun Sep 26, 2010 10:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

Im so glad most of these issues have been resolved, i realy like egyptian in GE:X.
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 PostPosted: Sun Sep 26, 2010 10:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

After some testing, I think I may leave out the shoots from the AI Path Network. They act really odd trying to use them, and look kind of dumb while walking up them. I had them forced to crouch, which may be the reason for their strange appearance. Still, there's something up with the clipping type needed for the base of the shoots, too. As is, you hop up no problem, but Sims fall through to their death. Well, you can also, but you need to be ducking down all the way. Changing it into a ladder type feels wrong, and even Sims have difficulty with it. So, I am just going keep it as it was, and not allow them to traverse the shoots. Guess we still need some cheap exploits here and there. Razz
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 PostPosted: Tue Nov 09, 2010 1:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

I've done something that allows us to properly utilize the three shoots. They each now look, and act, just like ramps. There is no longer a short wall at either end of the bases. This helps on multiple accounts...



The first, and most important, is that Sims will no longer fall out of the map while running near the edge of the shoots. This didn't happen a lot, but it did crop up enough for me to take notice of it. Simulants, when attempting to use the shoot, would drop through the floor to their death. With these now being ramps, that problem is gone.

Secondly, it takes away the issue of what clipping type to use. With the wall at the base as a ladder, it would temporarily stop you from moving at the top. You'd ascend the tip of the ladder, before dropping off into the hallway. With the tiles as normal floor type, you could actually fall out of the map, if you were either crouched low, or were playing as a short character. Neither of these are a factor anymore.

And thirdly, the Sims are now able to navigate the shoots much easier. Oddly enough, they sometimes prefer to use a shoot other than the one you're in, as an almost surprise attack.

Part of a downside to PD's player movement support, is that you can accidentally pop through the ceiling on some ramps, and can then leave the stage boundaries. When this happens, you plummet to your death. Adding additional clipping to higher heights will keep you in the stage, but you will still see into a void if you move too fast. Also, on ramps, you can "jump" on top of an opponent (or friend). This can also eject you out of the map. I can do whatever I can to keep you inside, but there are some exploits that aren't that easy to overcome. I will continue to try, however.

Overall, these changes are so slight that they don't make a big impact on gameplay. Whether you like the way it was before, or like the way it is now, it was done within the best interest of the player.
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EternallyAries
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 PostPosted: Tue Nov 09, 2010 12:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

Hm i like this new idea you made Wreck.
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MRKane
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 PostPosted: Tue Nov 09, 2010 3:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

About that ramp cheat: Personally I think we should clip all steps with ramps. Not only does it lower the amount of memory that the level uses, but it means that the autoface looks up as you're climbing them (thus making the gaming more enjoyable) and most of all - they're less likely to screw up!

Nice work...it looks amazing!
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 PostPosted: Tue Nov 09, 2010 3:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

Wow, what an amazing job this looks! Nice job, Wreck, and the rest of the team. - Written from Wii Internet.
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oldyz
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 PostPosted: Tue Nov 09, 2010 6:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

it is a good idea, but i always wonder how the clipping works-
this machine has problems with the editor so i try to learn by reading your experiences here -

i still can't understand why there is no "ceiling clipping" it looks like there is since you can bounce grenades and things of ceiling walls but it look like this same values do not apply to the character and sims-

About the ramp - 90 degree clipping always looks like it has trouble when it goes to other angles that go lower, in this drawing :


Purple = Clipping
is a thing i hope some one tries and can tell me if it works -
it is a simulated step, the invisible wall of the clipping is not at a 90 degree angle, but it gives the player the impression that you still climb a border-
this same could work in other areas one example is the bottoms of elevators in the datadyne building multiplayer where players and sims would get stuck -

Ceiling clipping - the way i see it looks like the clipping has a positive side and negative side, if the clippings act like polygons can they be flipped?
another way to stop players from passing though would be to add hidden objects (crates for example) that could act as a barrier?


Last edited by oldyz on Wed Nov 10, 2010 6:56 am; edited 1 time in total
 
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 PostPosted: Wed Nov 10, 2010 3:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

I like what you have done wreck but would it be possible (I think this is what oldies is saying) to have the Entry and Exit clipping as floor clipping at an angle (Slope/ramp clipping), for all you would see of a sim or someone "passing through" the level mesh slightly I think this could have worked.

The thing I notice from your 2 shots is that in the origonal you would have been hidden, therefore having to enter the ramp to be seen, whereas now if you pass the ramp you get seen.

Trev

P.S. I think ive decifered the drawing, purple is clipping isnt it?
If so then the problem in your drawing is that if clipping gets in the way then you stop (dont you?), so my idea was to have the start of the clipping at the edge of the flat part therefore your feet would sink into the ramp, but at least your not stopped in the middle of a hallway, or jump for that matter if you dont get stopped.
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