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GE Streets [FUTURE] improvements?

 
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oldyz
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 PostPosted: Sat Nov 13, 2010 2:09 am    Post subject: GE Streets [FUTURE] improvements? Reply with quote Back to top

not much change -

graphically maybe some dried trees - in the movie some can be seen
some water puddles - seen in the movie scene too

Wreck has pointed this is a Hollywood preference for aestetics -
i think it fits since the statue scene might feature rain.

The "blue abbyss" at the end of the level will hopefully feature now Depot's begining polygons

THE TANK

The biggest issue - what to do with the current imposibility
of bringing over the Tank object-

I have no idea of what changes to the level objectives or how the chase should be- having a motorbike here would be not right and a repetition to the runway solution.

SATURN_81 wrote:
I want to ask if there is any way to port the operation of the tank to Perfec Dark goldeneye, ie I wonder if there is a way to get all data from the tank and run it in Perfect Dark, for example to go in the tank, adjust the speed and power to move the canyon sides. I'll also ask whether the same could be done with artificial intelligence of enemies, I would like to see a kind of artificial intelligence was mixed GE and PD. on Artificial Intelligence in PD my opinion is that the enemies seem to be deaf, that is if the enemies hear your shots do not always go where you are as in GE.
perhaps finds you doing using only the editor for the creation of GE-X, and not how they could influence tools, such as the Hammer, for those levels where you have difficulties, perhaps a new approach to help.
I like what's new on GE-X, but I usually like when a change or substitution, unless the change is made to GE-X works better because the new engine.


Radorn:
I'm no programmer, but I'll try to make an educated guess on this.
The user operable vehicles in GE and PD (tank and hoverbike) are, like all other effects, animations and object behaviors, "hardwired" pieces of code. This is, they aren't like action blocks or clipping or geometry, which are all more or less static data that the engine of the game handles. Instead, they are or have associated programs that run on the N64's CPU and produce the effect.
The tank in GE is programmed to interact with GE's "magnetic" clipping, while PD uses a more "traditional" collision geometry other objects come in contact with.
This difference alone would make it necessary to recode the tank to work in PD, and this doesn't account for finding the tank's program within GE and managing to plug it into PD, which would be quite an adventure in itself.
Unless the possible remnants of tank code are found within PD and someone manages to make them usable, I see it very difficult that we get a tank in PD.


about the operations of the tank -
There is some similar ways to move the Camspy, the buttons are just different and also the camspy, shoots projectiles.

A big camspy where you can climb on might be the answer.
Of course this might mean rezising it and a complete remodel & re-program of the camspy object.
to killenemies it would have to be surrounded by a moving exlosion damage value
And i guess - to use the tank you have to touch it and then choose it from the weapons wheel.

NO Tank streets?

at this time i have no ideas for any alternatives

Coop -
Valentin is obvious choice
 
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Wreck
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 PostPosted: Sat Nov 13, 2010 2:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

Ending void: There is an object in GoldenEye that nearly matches the gate at the beginning of Depot, directly behind your starting position. That gate will be placed at the end of Streets, filling in the awful gap.

Tank: I believe we'll be able to get the tank in the game at some point, but for the time being, you will have access to another vehicle. The motorbike will have to fill the position, and it is certainly better than nothing at all.

Cooperative: You mean, you want the second player to assume control of Valentin? If that is so, that doesn't make much sense. You are supposed to meet with him, so that he'll contact his associates and slowdown Ourumov. Without that encounter, the timer wouldn't increase. It'd change your objectives. Also, that means Valentin would have to remain your partner through the next two missions.

Puddles: This is a lot more work than it is worth. You have to remove part of the road, build a "mirrored" image of the surrounding architecture underneath the ground, add in a portal, and apply the proper puddle texture. All that for an effect you basically run over top of? It worked alright in Chicago Streets, but only because it was raining heavily before the mission began, and continued pouring during it.

Other changes: I do have ideas for other changes, both to setup and background, which I think could be both fun and exciting. Certain things may not make it in the official GE:X release, but I'm hoping others do.
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oldyz
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 PostPosted: Sat Nov 13, 2010 3:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

MM
you are right- Valentin does not fit -

Hehe how about "concerned citizen"?

temporary motorbike is ok but really will have to go.
 
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Trevor
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 PostPosted: Mon Nov 15, 2010 4:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

You could jump in the bright orange mini Laughing

Or on a more serious note, how about steeling the jeeps? The glass would need to be made much more transparent (though not completly gone as I think the GE project had).

These Russians and their keys... oh wait, Bond can hotwire cars, well that explains it... But how does he do it so quick? Oh, the Russians can't afford key-barrel casings... Laughing

I think it would be more fun to be able to 'drive' almost anything, espesualy if your just messing around killing anything that moves.



Ok, Now that these threads have been re-titled how about the inclusion of the Black car?
It would be great to be able to chase it through streets (though you may actualy only see it at the start - mines etc?)

Though, depending on if theres a limate to moving vehicles, you could stay with it untill the road-blocks involving jeeps.

After the car passes the jeeps they 'move into possition' which, if you crash into them slows you down anyway so by then the car should be too far away to keep up with.

Hmm, how does contacting valentine fit into this though? At that point you woulndt exactly bother to go back for him...
I guess the car and jeep manovers would (after the start street) be just be like cheese, there but only for those who want to see it.

Trev

P.S. On the subject of puddles, Id rather see a more crowded streets than copies of buildings on an already, according to others, slow level. Streets is very sparse...

Also, cant remember if this has been mentioned, I think it has, Different Civillians not all red guys but others and some femails too.
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 PostPosted: Tue Nov 16, 2010 6:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

mission to improve the streets in the future it occurs to me that (it's crazy).
Objective 1: Valentin locate and escort to safety.
Objective 2: Find and follow the path of Ourumov, while on the road the soldiers try to capture you.
Objective 3: no civilian should be injured. (This variation would increase the difficulty, also would propose that some civilians were taken hostage)
Now this idea is on the design level and propose extensions that can be done within the possibilities: the false doors of buildings to the street should be open so that you walk into a room where there will be mini some soldiers hostage and some object you pick. if you can put soldiers on the rooftop or on a window better, would increase the difficulty. for the idea that occurred to me about opening the doors false, it would be for the 00 Agent difficulty level and some guards should carry keys on those fake doors (for the history I would say have been confiscated their personal effects that the guards hold the keys)
 
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Dragonsbrethren
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 PostPosted: Tue Nov 16, 2010 8:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

Wreck wrote:
Ending void: There is an object in GoldenEye that nearly matches the gate at the beginning of Depot, directly behind your starting position. That gate will be placed at the end of Streets, filling in the awful gap.

The interesting thing about this is that there's no pad for a gate at the void. There is one right outside of the achieves' lot, though. IIRC, that pad doesn't work as a door, either, only a standard object. Meaning you were probably supposed to run the gate down, kind of like Bond driving the tank through the wall in the film. I've never tested if the gate breaks properly or not, though.

On that note, I'd be surprised if there wasn't a gate at the void at some point. It seems like the objects cut latest in development don't have pads anymore, so that's not proof one was never there. If I had to guess I'd say it was cut to make it clear that was the end of the mission - a really lame end, one that could've been pulled off a lot better - but clearer than the gate would've been.
 
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oldyz
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 PostPosted: Wed Nov 17, 2010 8:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

SATURN_81 those objectives sound good and make good sense -

in fact it inspired the integration of Valentin as a playable coop partner

here it goes

Coop edition of Streets -

Bond has the task of contacting Valentine-
Problem valentin appears in the map somewhere else.
Players 2's task? go to the rendezvous point to meet Bond -
After the meeting:
Valentin has to go to an especific place to contact his associates and extend Bond's time Or
Player 2 must stay alive for about 40 seconds while you can hear or read valentin Making his call - maybe even there's Janus forces using a communications Jamming device in the area - Player 2's task then is clear:
fight off Janus enemies and Do some tasks that Player 1 will not have time to do.
Better players at Valentin's control will even have time to further assist Bond's chase -doubt it - it must be made certain that player 2 is completely busy too with his own tasks.

This will probably make frame-rate troubles -
the only solution i see is optimizing the level to run faster -
reducing texture sizes - sound files of less size, Less polygon details.

@ Dragonsbrethren
The flying doors animation when the skedar knocks down the carrington institute's doors could be used for the Tank or car destroying the gates.
 
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 PostPosted: Wed Nov 17, 2010 1:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

oldyz thanks. guess what I asked is for the co-op, anyway my idea is a non-playable as Valentin original goldeneye, I raised the goal is to find Valentin, listening to her talk and then you follow up a insurance (the place is chosen by the player) and by the way bond Valentin defend from enemy fire (this seems a little to the mission of Air Force One with President).
of course I'm thinking we're going to do that character in the game will be the player 2 (the character that will speak for all missions) will be always the same? or is it a character at random according to the mission you are playing?
 
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oldyz
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 PostPosted: Thu Nov 18, 2010 5:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

Yes - the single player Valentin variation seems fine - the scorting has to be fast paced but i think can't be for more than 3 blocks -
For coop and single i think rooftop snipers and window snipers would be awesome -

On the coop:

I think is sad , but it appears that Perfect Dark does not have the ability to
assign an especific Coop character to the missions - player 2 is always
velvet dark , and any body replacements done to the Joanna body affect velvet.
i don't know if this can be broken and fixed -

The Cooperative Mission patches will probably have to be a mission by mission thing -

in some fortunate cases mission sets
example

Coop edition pack 1- Dam, Facility,Runway
player 2 must control Trevelyan -
Dam and facility can have Trevelyan appearing in a different locations
(like the way player 1 and player 2 appear in different places for the carrington villa level)
and player 2 by default might carry keys that give him access to certain doors that player 1 can't open. (i think this happens in PD i'm not sure)
Random object apperances encourages players to separate and look for them - Most of the time Random objects should appear in places that make logical sense - for example
A chemical formula book -
it would appear in either the labs , on a book shelf, or a file cabinet
Also the appearance of them should be programed so sometimes player 1 grabs the object easiest or player 2 grabs it easiest.

The problem with coop Runway

Bond and Trevelyan's paths cannot meet - that would mean creating whole new areas where player 2 is basically surviving and getting away to another scape place.
That's where Trevor's weird dream areas , and a portion of Wreck's false door new areas will play an important role for player 2.
While Bond does his default objectives -
Maybe something player 2 does would help Bond with no direct intention -
say Trevelyan presses a button in his area - and some Extra gun turrets that Bond can't destroy get de-activated.
This mission will require optimization, and much tought so it comes out faithfull to the movie events.

Sadly if we can't get custom Player 2 characters to load some missions will have to ocupy the whole Rom to make the story fit.

Example of this -
Statue, Archives, Streets, Depot , Train -

they are all one big continous mission
PROBLEM -
Statue - Player 2 either Valentin or Natalia
Archives - Player 2 Natalia
Streets - Player 2 uses Valentin -
Depot - I was thinking a concerned Night-watch man (security cop working there) that is a cameo by one of the Hackers here OR valentin (he does not seem to fit)
Train - this one will be tough - it could be natalia - but player 2 will be captured and held hostage after some time anyway (forced to be unarmed and trapped) - or it could be the night watch man again -
maybe risking his life OUTSIDE of the train (on top of it)-

so all this contained within one ROM (best case scenario)- because some needed changes would be so radical they would affect other levels -
Worst case scenario - there would have to be a Statue ROM
Archives ROM, Streets ROM, DEpot/Train ROM.

There is one advantage to releasing A level by level or level Packs patches - Exclusive MI6 training AND Multiplayer RAreware tribute content-
example - multiplayer contains the whole levels with props as multiplayer map (like the patch release of the datadyne building with propsa t the vault)
the same levels in segments (like the library level in GE)
Tribute content - Multiplayer maps based in other Rareware games, and Leveles based in other FPS games and ported multi levels at the vault.
 
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Trevor
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 PostPosted: Sat Nov 20, 2010 9:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

hmm, with you posting this I now see where my problems would have arised...

As you say good if it were in one rom but as you un-intensionly point out co-op will unfortunatly not fit the story too well. (You cant exactly have player2 sitting around for a whole match...)

hmm,

Trev

P.S. did you get my PM?
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 PostPosted: Sun Nov 21, 2010 7:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

I did want to include Ourumov's black car at the beginning of the level, during the opening scene. It would take off down the road, and would later be removed from the stage. The car would be found again in the following mission, parked inside the garage next to the train.

Other civilian characters should make an appearance in the mission, rather than just the guy in red. It is likely possible to have it randomly choose between the few different bodies, so there is a wider variety of innocent bystanders.

BMW made use of one of the buildings, by removing the fake doors and creating a room inside. This is something that I would consider, but only if the room is made really well. The quality would need to match that of the other interiors in the map, and would only serve as a fun bonus.

The wooden fence near the start of the stage is another thing I'd like to work in. By stripping the fence out of the background, it can be remade as an object. When you hit it with an explosive, it'd break open. You could then enter the area behind it, where you'd find something special. Personally, I'd like the motorbike there.
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Trevor
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 PostPosted: Mon Nov 22, 2010 4:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

Nice ideas wreck, but are they for the normal GEX? the whole fence and interiors thing may upset some people in the origonal release (hence all the dissagreements and thread title changes) I do like them though...

Would you consider my nightclub as an interior? (I think the picture was in rumway thread under secret door - Gun room)

Trev
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 PostPosted: Mon Nov 22, 2010 5:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

The small changes that I have in mind wouldn't actually effect anything about the original level or the objectives. In fact, it'd be very easy for them to go completely unnoticed. Unless you attempt to open one of the fake doors, or launch a grenade at the wooden fence, you'd never know that something lies behind it. It's a special little bonus for those adventurers who take some extra time to try new things.

As for the new interior, it'd probably be similar to the other two interiors near the Valentin area. That would keep a constant theme, and not introduce more textures into the already image heavy stage.
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oldyz
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 PostPosted: Mon Nov 22, 2010 5:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

& remember -
feel free to take any of the shared ideas and use them
in case something can't be replaced -
they should be useful to fill in the gap while editor and the
hacking catches up to re-do the original.

the only thing that is weird is -
i would think that having all the same objects, characters textures and props and scripts would be easier to handle for PD -

but so far the worries about frame-rate makes me think that
Goldeneye and PD are about the same when it comes to how much things can run smooth inside a level.

PS:
HAS any of the level editors made a test to truly compare both engines?
(putting something like a 100 soldiers on screen in GE and then In PD)
 
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