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[XBLA] Another Area 51 Guard Betrayal
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acceptable67
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 PostPosted: Thu Dec 30, 2010 6:11 pm    Post subject: [XBLA] Another Area 51 Guard Betrayal Reply with quote Back to top

Well yes, I have the game, and it's very very cool and great remake. Now on to this topic. We all know how in the original N64 version in Area 51 Rescue before you got to the door to beat the level, you would see a man dressed in the enemies uniform firing at his comrades then sprinting away when he notices you. Well, since I got this game, I have never seen that guard, until now. Plus another.

I was cloaked, and as I was running down to mess with the guards I heard a magnum go off for the first time, and, I assumed it was that guard from the N64 version, so I didn't pay much attention, and continued to fool around with the guards. But I did notice, every time I ran that level, when the music kicks in at the end, a guard will spawn at the elevator (A guard with a Dragon, not a Magnum.). Well, since this was a 'play around' mission for me I didn't beat it immediately, and stuck around for a little while. But I thought that was kind of odd how he would just 'Spawn' right there. So I kept my eye on him, and all of the sudden, he opens fire on the catwalk at the guards as well! He just walks patiently then blasts them with bullets, continues to walk, then kills more guards. Then he finally comes down from the cat walk, and is 'startled' by a dead guard.. unbeknown that he killed at least 3 of them.

So I found that kind of interesting ^^
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radorn
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 PostPosted: Fri Dec 31, 2010 5:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

I'm not sure what you are talking about.
the only "man with enemy uniform" that shots at guards with a magnum I know is double agent Johnatan, Joana's brother, also a CI agent.
In Area 51 he's supposed to have infiltrated the complex before you arrive.
 
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acceptable67
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 PostPosted: Fri Dec 31, 2010 8:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

You see, when you get there, doesn't anyone else remember that one guard with the magnum that shoots at his comrades? I saw that guy, but what I am saying Radorn is that some guy spawned near the elevator with a Dragon, not the door you walk into to win the mission, and ALSO opened fired on his mates, so 2 traitors.
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 PostPosted: Fri Dec 31, 2010 11:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

Yeah I have found two "traitors" on the original as well. but they both had magnums.idk weird
 
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PacmanPlush
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 PostPosted: Sat Jan 01, 2011 7:25 pm    Post subject: Re: [XBLA] Another Area 51 Guard Betrayal Reply with quote Back to top

acceptable67 wrote:
We all know how in the original N64 version in Area 51 Rescue before you got to the door to beat the level, you would see a man dressed in the enemies uniform firing at his comrades then sprinting away when he notices you.


Do you mean Area 51: Infiltration? That's the only one I remember the magnum guard appearing on. Really weird, that one. He shoots his buddies for a little while, then runs into the warehouse and stands beside Jonathan. Normally, you can never actually see him.

Yamo included it in his PD mysteries page:
http://web.archive.org/web/20080514165505/http://www.yamoslair.com/pdmyst.html
(Number 12, "Another double agent?")

It's pretty clearly intentional. Can the Setup Editor be used to view PD's scripting? It'd be interesting to see what exactly spawns him.

Rare discusses the magnum guard in this Rumour Mill update:

http://web.archive.org/web/20020819223002/www.rareware.com/the_site/rare_games/new_games_digest/pd_digest/pd_rm_copy.html

Quote:
Q: Why does one of the guards in Area 51 shoot his fellow guards with a Magnum then run away?
A: He is Jonathan, your Carrington Institute co-agent, and the person you're supposed to meet before scarpering. Look, you're obviously suffering here, give the cart back. Play snap or something.


So the player was meant to hear but never see the shooter, thereby creating the impression that Jonathan is providing backup. But this never made sense to me--Jon berates Joanna numerous times for her "itchy trigger finger" and the importance of keeping your cover. He kills guards during A51:Escape, after his cover has been blown, and in the A51:Infiltration outro, when Joanna mistakes another soldier for him. So why would he go out and shoot people before he's even met up with Joanna?

Now, as for the second guard... I'd say that it's the result of a very rare glitch. Remember back in PD's heyday, all the talk about the "ghost" that killed at random? (Rare discusses this in the Rumour Mill, too.) Supposedly the ghost used a crossbow. The crossbow bit is untrue, but PD really does have some bugs in its AI--guards would sometimes be spawned as "friendly" and attack their buddies. The friendly guard is killed fairly quickly, and the bodies usually fade before the player can get to that area, leaving only their weapons behind. But once in a blue moon, you'll actually see him attacking. I put hundreds of hours into the N64 version, and only saw it once or twice. As long as the guard is alive, it's a bit like having a Perfect Buddy. This is known as the "Janus guard glitch."

(We should have a thread on glitches and oddities in the XBLA version- just discovered one in A51:Infiltration while I was checking out your elevator guard. Get the keycard for the cargo elevator, and go to the console that you use it on. Wait until the text starts scrolling, then press A. The screen switches to a green button graphic, which keeps scrolling!)
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 PostPosted: Sat Jan 01, 2011 7:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

The glitchy green screen actually happened in the N64 version too.

You can view PD's action blocks with the setup editor. I forget if the extracted built-in PD blocks are included with the full install or not, though.
 
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 PostPosted: Sun Jan 02, 2011 6:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

Dragonsbrethren wrote:
The glitchy green screen actually happened in the N64 version too.


Shocked

Wow, can't believe I missed that, though I think I see why. Having checked the N64 version, I vaguely remembered seeing it before. I think because the graphics are so blurry and lo-res I never realized what I was looking at was half a screen, I just figured it was supposed to look that way. Laughing Interesting how the prettier graphics can make something like this more apparent.

Oddly enough, both versions handle this glitch differently. In the N64 version, the green screen scrolls up, leaving the lower part of the console black. In the XBLA version, the green screen scrolls up, but the graphic wraps around the console. The shading on the screen's edges leaves an obvious line between the two halves.

I know some people here were unimpressed with the XBLA version. There were some aspects of it I found disappointing, too. But it's things like this screen glitch, speedrunning tactics like the dataDyne shortcut and diagonal movement, and the apparent return of the Janus guards that really prove how faithful the port is. Makes me wonder whether Rare kept glitches like the "paintbrush," floating Tiny Bond, and unarmed guards in GE XBLA.
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acceptable67
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 PostPosted: Sun Jan 02, 2011 8:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

This isn't a glitch. It's happening non-stop and I've even seen it in game play videos.
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 PostPosted: Sun Jan 02, 2011 10:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

acceptable67 wrote:
This isn't a glitch. It's happening non-stop and I've even seen it in game play videos.


I've just gone back and ran through it a few more times, and... yeah, you're right! I've actually gotten it to work a few times now. Here's the thing, though; unless I've misread your instructions, it's a different guard for me.

The elevator that you said he spawns outside of--you mean the one where Jon radios you and says "Careful with that trigger finger, Agent Dark- you're closing in on my position", correct? As you walk down the catwalk away from this elevator and the music kicks in, a guard with a Dragon does spawn outside it, but for me, he didn't do anything unusual. This is why I figured it was just a glitch.

However, when I carry on down the catwalk, the door you enter to end the mission opens, and several guards armed with Dragons emerge from it. The magnum guard stays back out of sight and shoots them. Sometimes, one of these guards will survive the magnum guy's attack, and starts shooting his buddies. After he's killed a few, he'll stop and say one of the surprise quotes. Shocked The game identifies him as an enemy target, even as he's shooting the other guards.

I cannot seem to do this consistently. Whether he turns or not may be tied to the magnum guard. I played the level in counter-op mode, and killed the magnum guard before he shot anyone. None of the guards decided to turn. The next time through, I did not attack the magnum guard. The Dragon guy started shooting his buddies, but the magnum guard shot him soon after.

Very, very strange.
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 PostPosted: Mon Jan 03, 2011 6:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

Althugh this page is directly related to the XBLA version, I noticed on the link of glitches/recovered data that there were these words

Code:

Floodlights
Destructable Walls


Now for the N64 version/GEX I just want to say one thing,
Somebody re-activate/program these Razz Wink

Trev

P.S. Floodlights, I wounder what it meant? I take it as being the lighting effects from single player, i.e. the flare etc.
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PaRaDoX
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 PostPosted: Mon Jan 03, 2011 8:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

of topic but what do you guys mean with "Janus guards"?
 
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acceptable67
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 PostPosted: Mon Jan 03, 2011 10:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

PacmanPlush wrote:


The elevator that you said he spawns outside of--you mean the one where Jon radios you and says "Careful with that trigger finger, Agent Dark- you're closing in on my position", correct? As you walk down the catwalk away from this elevator and the music kicks in, a guard with a Dragon does spawn outside it, but for me, he didn't do anything unusual. This is why I figured it was just a glitch.



Exactly what I'm talking about
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acceptable67
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 PostPosted: Mon Jan 03, 2011 10:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

I also have a reply to the magnum guard. The reason hes there is to believe that Jonathan is shooting the guards, so by the time you get there, hes gone, and you believe it was Jonathan. But sometimes were really fast and catch this 'Magnum' guard. Why didn't rare just make Jonathan shoot guards instead of implementing a whole-nother guard to make us believe Jonathan was shooting?
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 PostPosted: Mon Jan 03, 2011 10:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

Trevor wrote:
P.S. Floodlights, I wounder what it meant? I take it as being the lighting effects from single player, i.e. the flare etc.

If I had to guess, I'd say it's the opposite of the Perfect Darkness cheat; all lights are set to their full brightness. I'm no techie, but I assume it probably wouldn't be too hard to add.

BGS wrote:
of topic but what do you guys mean with "Janus guards"?

Well, not necessarily off topic as it's a similar concept. Basically what happens is a guard will become friendly to the player, and will begin shooting the rest of the guards, almost as if he'd been shot with the Psychosis gun.

The name (though it has its basis in Roman mythology) references PD's spiritual predecessor, GoldenEye, and the character Alec Trevelyan, referred to as "Janus" after he switches sides.

The glitch is rare enough that many people doubt whether or not it actually happens. It's much easier to see the effects of a Janus guard than the guard himself. I've seen it happen, but it was so long ago I can't remember what conditions I saw it under (Gamesharking, in-game cheats, or even what mission.)

What acceptable67 found is different--it's repeatable.

EDIT:
acceptable67 wrote:
Exactly what I'm talking about

Hmm. I still can't make this guy do anything, but the guard under the ramp will attack his pals a bit less than half the time.

acceptable67 wrote:
Why didn't rare just make Jonathan shoot guards instead of implementing a whole-nother guard to make us believe Jonathan was shooting?

I'm sure there's a good reason for it, but I certainly can't think of one. All I can figure is that for some reason they couldn't make Jon's cutscene model actually go out and attack. So they put together this other guy, and never bothered to change his head. After all, we were never intended to see the magnum guy, just hear him.

I've been playing around in counter-op mode so I could see the magnum guard attacking. It's quite interesting, and he's pretty much the best shot in the game. He's locked to one position, in the hallway where the cutscene takes place. So, as you've found, he's pretty hard to see from this position. From his hiding spot, he actually shoots the other guards through the wall.
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 PostPosted: Tue Jan 04, 2011 9:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

PacmanPlush wrote:

BGS wrote:
of topic but what do you guys mean with "Janus guards"?

Well, not necessarily off topic as it's a similar concept. Basically what happens is a guard will become friendly to the player, and will begin shooting the rest of the guards, almost as if he'd been shot with the Psychosis gun.

The name (though it has its basis in Roman mythology) references PD's spiritual predecessor, GoldenEye, and the character Alec Trevelyan, referred to as "Janus" after he switches sides.

The glitch is rare enough that many people doubt whether or not it actually happens. It's much easier to see the effects of a Janus guard than the guard himself. I've seen it happen, but it was so long ago I can't remember what conditions I saw it under (Gamesharking, in-game cheats, or even what mission.)




Well in that case it has happend to me too at times.Kinda interesting isn't it?

EDIT: I went and shot the magnum guard with a Psychosis but he didn't change. He just kept standing there and when I aimed at him the game still recognized him as an enemy.It seems that not all guards are affected besides the Skedar(with the exception of the one in the beginning of Attack ship)
 
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