GoldenEye 007 Nintendo 64 Community, GoldenEye X, Nintendo 64 Games Discussion

[Kerr Avon]

Probably been done a dozen times on these forums, but since the question of which game is best between Perfect Dark and Goldeneye is one of those that regularly crops up with gamers (like 'which is best between Zelda: Ocarina of Time or Zelda: Majora's Mask', 'Which is better between Unreal Tournament and Quake 3', or 'Which is better between joypad or keyboard + mouse'*), I thought I'd make a poll here.

So, which do you prefer between PD and Goldeneye, in both single player and multiplayer (you can choose one game for single player, and the other game for multiplayer, if you like, of course).

Me, I prefer Perfect Dark for both single and multiplayer. I think that PD is superior to GE in almost every way, except atmosphere, and to a degree the single player level design. Everything else, single player missions, weapons, multiplayer levels, multiplayer options, music, graphics, I prefer PD. I love GE, don't get me wrong (it's my second favourite game, after PD) but I feel that PD bettered it in almost ever way.

But GE does have more atmosphere than PD. Levels like the Damn, Surface, Jungle, and Statue, have so much atmosphere. and when Bond dies in single player mode, the end effect is very striking. And of course when you boot up the cartridge, and get the fake Board of Censors message, the Bond-walkinh-on-and-shooting opening scene, and the strikingly powerful way the familiar Bond theme kicks in, the atmosphere is fantastic.






* For what it's worth, I *much* prefer Unreal Tournament to Quake 3, I prefer joypad to keyboard + mouse, though of course I can't deny that kb+m is faster and more accurate, so in a contest with a kb+m user I'd have to also choose kb+m, but for fun I prefer a joypad, and I have no idea which is best between Ocarina of Time and Majora's Mask, as I've never played either of them, though I intend to, one day.

[MRKane]

Grudgingly I've got to put Goldeneye down for both single and multi as it's just more "fun". There's also less performance issues which are something that I find to be a real drag (at time PD can get fragmented and you also end up with your eyes being blown out by frequently needless lens flares).

And putting forward with the old debate: I'm an Unreal guy through and through, have developed in the engine for years, and use to play competitively back in the day. I personally always preferred playing games on a console as it's just more (here I go again) "fun". There's a clinical nature to a keyboard and mouse which I was happy to leave behind when I got out of the competitive scene.

Just my thoughts
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No Mr. Bond, I expect you to be re-coded!

[Sogun]

This has been debated a few times from different perspectives but I never get tired, heh.

I prefer Perfect Dark over GoldenEye, in both single player and multiplayer. That's normal considering that PD came after GE and polished it. But I agree with Kerr Avon that GE has some aspects that exceed PD. He summed it up as 'atmosphere'. To me, PD lacks the inspiration that was shown in GE (don't get me wrong, PD has tons of inspiration, but GE in some aspects goes a step forward).

First of all, GE has a better presentation. The interface and menus are better integrated in the game universe than in PD. This was probably easier since most of us are familiar with Bond's movies universe, but you can't think of a better way to do it (censor screen, Bond intro, Dossier menus, black and white photos, spy like reports of levels, gadget watch, even the end credits...). PD universe was made from scratch even if it had some outside references. They tried to give menus personality (holographic screens projected to the eyes), but they couldn't get them as good as GE.
Heh, but PD has the Carrington Institue.

A second aspect that I found better in GE than in PD is the music. This is similar as presentation: since we know how a Bond movie soundtrack sounds, it's easier to addapt it to a videogame. PD has its own style, and technically is probably a better music, but GE feels more fitting. This one is very personal.

Lastly, level design. In my opinion, PD has a better equilibrium than GE in level design, but GE has the bests levels of both (and worst too: Runway ). However, while playing PD I felt like some PD levels were based on GE (Facility/Datadyne labs, Surface/Crash site, Frigate/Pelagic II, Train/Air Force One). Again, PD's inspiration wasn't as good.
But since levels in PD were longer, had more variety in environments and objectives, and they were more different when playing in different difficulty levels, overall they are one or two steps further than GE.

In multiplayer in terms of design is the opposite. I think GE levels have a better design overall, but since PD has more modes and options, and it also incorporates two of the best GE multi maps and upgraded them (I would have exchanged Temple for Basement), PD wins by a great margin. It misses the 'You only live twice' mode, though.

In every other aspect PD improves GE. Second function on guns (some of them memorable), double crouching (with the hability to turn the screen black for multiplayer), better AI, better hit detection, quick access ingame menu, voice acting, cinematics (I don't really like PD story, to me it was just an excuse to have original weapons, gadgets and environments), better graphics (even the blur effect )...

So in conclusion I'd say that GoldenEye: X has a good chance to mix the best of both games in one title. Too bad we can't include GE's presentation.

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As for other games:
-I only played Quake III on a friend's Dreamcast, and it was always 4 player matches. It was really fun but I think I didn't play long enough to compare it to Unreal Tournamet.
UT, by the other side, was my favourite PC FPS in those days, more than Team Fortress or Counter Strike. Actually, I think PD "copied" some aspects of it (like second function on weapons and guided missiles). In fact, I think that PD gathers a lot of good gameplay mechanics from other FPS of the time, making it something like the ultimate FPS of its age.

-About N64 Zeldas... OOT is my favourite game of all time, but when I played Majora's Mask (after beating Twilight Princess, in early 2007) my impression was similar than with GE/PD.
It adds so many good gameplay mechanics (reseting time so you can replay dungeons and bosses, masks that give you new habilities, NPCs that really feel alive, the dungeons are better than OOT although in minor numbers) that it had a good chance to surpass OOT.
But something didn't feel right with MM. They repeated some ideas from OOT (Lost Woods, Dampeé's race, Gerudo Fortress) and I didn't like Termina as much as I like Hyrule (weirder design, bigger places but more void, the world are 4 separated areas).
I also prefer OOT's story, music and bosses, so overall I'd say both games have the same quality.

EDIT:
As for joypad vs keyboard+mouse I'll choose Wiimote+nunchuk
Playing FPS on Wii with that combination is awesome, you don't have as much precision as with kb+m but it's certainly a lot more confortable. And with practise you can have an amazing accuracy while jumping, moving and rotating.
Fortunately with Wii64 (a Nintento64 emulator for Wii) you can setup GE and PD to be controlled this way, and the last version of Not64 (a Wii64 mod) has improved PD performance a lot, so now it's like 70% playable with Wii controls.

I'm too disappointed with Nintendo that they decide not to improve the wiimote a release a revision for WiiU, and that's not my only complain about the new system.

[TH126]

No doubt Perfect Dark is a bigger, more advanced version of GE but I always viewed them on the same level. I barely ever refer to one being better than the other, just because I love them equally. Goldeneye X has the potential to truly be the best FPS ever created, in my eyes.
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[Rey]

Goldeneye is bassed off a movie while Perfect Dark is original and well made story.
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[fantsu]

I'd say GE for single, but PD for multi.
PDs coop is better (for single player maps) thou.

[PaRaDoX]

I prefer Perfect Dark over Goldeneye. Perfect Dark has so much more content in it.
Either way those 2 are one of my favorite FPS Out there.

[SilverEye]

heh I know this is old but I seem to have a complete different opinion than most of you guys have
Goldeneye over everything. I never liked perfect dark that much. Maybe because I never liked futuristic looking games?
Perfect dark is a great game, but Goldeneye was the game that made me a gamer. The realistic side is really oposite to the style of perfect dark, which is futuristic, so not realistic. I seemed to prefer the realistic style
and yes, perfect dark IS technically better than Goldeneye. But a bugatti veyron is faster than an aston martin db5 too. Is the bugatti the best car? wouldn't think so
p.s. please don't hate me for this

[Wreck]

Technical, Schmectical...
Perfect Dark may be a better game "technically", it that still doesn't make it a better game. There were tons of enhancements and added features to the engine, which took the GoldenEye experience to a new level. However, just because you have bots in multiplayer and co-operative missions, that doesn't mean you've already succeeded the original. When it comes to level design, I think GE wins hands down. I seriously believe that this, above all else, is the reason PD doesn't quite live up to GoldenEye. While the multiplayer options may have been vastly improved upon, the arenas were mostly lacking. It's no wonder they kept three maps from GE and gave them slight makeovers.

To choose which of the two I actually prefer is fairly simple, but also somewhat difficult. GoldenEye will always be number one, though I have a ton of respect for the stuff they incorporated into Perfect Dark - some things we're still discovering to this day!
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[Dragonsbrethren]

GoldenEye definitely has the better level design of the two. I'd say both games' mission design is on par, although I prefer GE there too, for reasons I can't quite pin down. I also like the art style of GE; Perfect Dark's texturing has never really appealed to me as much as GE, and even places that were trying to be spartan and industrial (like the G5 Building) ended up looking way too busy due to their texturing. The shininess of most maps doesn't really do it for me (even though what I'm working on now is shiny...).

As for multiplayer, I'd like to say I prefer GE there, but I can't. I definitely prefer GE's backgrounds again, but PD brought so much to the table that I can't really fault it for not having as many enjoyable arenas. Bots were a huge upgrade, since GE's multiplayer was worthless when no one was around to play it with. Nowadays we have online, but back when the game was new, it was a big deal. The GE backgrounds were definitely the best included, with the possible exception of the Grid. New weapons were okay, but really the most enjoyable ones were already there in GE (and we lost a few, like a decent laser). But bots alone mean I prefer PD for multi.

I prefer GE's interface, too. One thing that never appealed to me about the later Bond games was that they tried to do the same thing, but modernized. I mean, think about it for a second: dossiers and black and white photos? In the mid 90's? It was already out of date for Bond, who's always been modern, but it just worked so well. (I've always wondered if Hollis was behind that art direction - ever check out Zoonami's site when it was still up?)

Lastly, I prefer GE's difficulty. I've yet to beat PD on Perfect Agent. I'm sure I'll do it one of these days, every time I feel like playing the game I eventually knock out another mission, but the fact is the game feels incredibly unfair. No way of preventing damage and far less exploitable guard AI really up the difficulty over GE, to the point I often just don't have fun with the game when I try playing on that difficulty. When I play GE to relax I play on 00 Agent. I might even turn on enemy rockets now and then. But PD, I hardly ever play on PA for fun. If it was just there as a super-hard, prove your skill thing like Legendary in Halo (which is far easier than PA), I wouldn't care, but it's required for getting the full set of objectives in each map and unlocking the last mission. (The fact that it's the weakest of the three bonus missions, not including The Duel, kind of softens the blow.)

Edit: I forgot, GoldenEye's got the better soundtrack, too. Who'd have thought the Bond theme could be bent into such a number of unique, atmospheric pieces? (I wouldn't mind picking up Crysis 3 just to hear what Norgate did with the music, his work on TimeSplitters was brilliant, but the game'd melt my computer.)

Oh, and Perfect Dark's story is illogical. Not quite Signs level alien incompetence, but close. I do like the characters, however.

[SilverEye]

oh yay so I'm not standing alone in my opinion

[acceptable67]

Quote:

one does not simply play "Perfect Agent" in Perfect Dark for enjoyment

Seriously.

ATTEMPT Rescue.

I dare you.
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Rare wrote:

Perfect Dark Forever.

[Dragonsbrethren]

Actually, I just finished Rescue on the 360 version not too long ago. I think Infiltration was the hardest Area 51 mission, Escape the easiest* My problem with Rescue was not heeding Jonathan's advice and trying to kill everyone in the stores. When I just ran for the lift (which, unfortunately, is pretty much an exploit in my eyes given you have to stop the intro at a specific point) and grabbed the Phoenix, I had no problems. Once you get into the research area, you're faced with maybe two guards at a time, outside of the one group being briefed near the duct, but you have a Phoenix and a proxy Dragon, and they're grouped together. And there's that bastard that spawns behind you when you try X-raying the Maian. Honestly, if you do the lift thing, it might be easier than Escape.

One mission that really surprised me was Deep Sea. I never even attempted it until recently given what a nightmare I remember it being on SA, but it's actually easier on PA since you don't really have to protect Elvis, he can mostly handle his own on PA, and you can use the FarSight to take most of the Skedar (and power...things) out well in advance. One of those missions where the first area is the toughest part.

*If you don't count Jonathan acting like a complete fool every other playthrough, all the times I accidentally triggered Joanna's "'I'll see to the consoles' -gets mobbed by a hundred guards before even getting in sight of the hoverbike-", and the times when Elvis just decides to freeze in the middle of a guard's line of fire.

[acceptable67]

I beat all Agent, S Agent, and P Agent on 360 many moons ago only to have it erased for the SECOND time in a row. Just stopped playing PD XBLA then.

There were many, many missions that were a bitch on PD for PA, specifically the ones you had mentioned. Apparently I'm not alone ...

Some that I thought were challenging were:

All A51 missions,
Deep Sea/Attack Ship
Maybe Air Base..?
Used to have trouble on Extraction.
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Rare wrote:

Perfect Dark Forever.

[Dragonsbrethren]

360 version is even harder than the cart just because the aim controls suck so bad. As worn out as my N64 controllers are, they're still infinitely more usable than the 360 controller when it comes to aiming. (I'm of the opinion that "Lock Sight" should have locked the aim mode sight as well. If you're not going to make any attempt to simulate how the N64 stick felt when aiming, then give us an option to play it like a modern game. TimeSplitters had this exact same problem on the PS2, though not as bad IIRC, finally added the option in the last game.)

Air Base is a nightmare. Any mission with infinite guards in PD is.