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007 - The World Is Not Enough
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MAURO
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 PostPosted: Tue Oct 30, 2012 7:11 am    Post subject: 007 - The World Is Not Enough Reply with quote Back to top

"I didn't see a thread about this game, so I'm making one just for TWINE discussion. So here we go".

Personally, I find this game strongly underrated. I will not write a thousand of wonderful words about it just because I'm a fanboy, or this was my first gaming experience ever, but the fact is: TWINE IS wonderful, enjoyable, catchy, pretty and epic as much as Goldeneye IS. Still, it doesn't have the attention it deserves.

It has great graphics, good action/suspense music, badass gadgets and weapon effects to take out the breathe of anyone. Also with a wide-variety of missions, not only the main shooting of many FPS games. We have the full-action King's Ramson; the Stealth Night Watch and Midnight Departure (this last being my favourite level); the evil A sinking Feeling; the epic intrusion of Masquerade and so on.... Every level with it's own distinct characteristics, and.. wel... comparing with Goldeneye, I find the goldeneye levels great, but looks like they wanted to make the different felling from map to map, but in the end it just went more like everything a bit close. I'll pick Surface for example, as it is my favourite game level. I don't have the strong "infiltration feeling" that the level could've been passed, although it is a steath level, the run/shoot takes place, many times. Of course I'm not lowering the attention that the game deserves, it's just my own opinion and how I feel when playing both games, and I of course love both of 'em, for what they are.

TWINE weapons are great as well. I think the best thing they made concerning weapons is the secondary function of the pistol, to take out and put back the silencer. It was a great function, and it saved the space for another gun, as GE/PD have two slots for basically the same weapon.
The unarmed option also LOOKS LIKE unarmed now. In GE we have those weird bitch slap, in PD Joanna punchs kinda of like "a woman" Very Happy And now Bond (TWINE, guys) unleashes a very high punch with all the fingers being pressed directly into the enemy face!! Twisted Evil But it's boring to punch enemies in TWINE, oh well... But about the grenades, I think that Bond could learn something from Joanna, as he throws grenades like a little girl and Joanna like is she was battling in the WWII. And another two weapons that I would like to highly is the Grenade Launcher (GL40) and the Rocket Launcher (RL22). Unlike GE/PD when you fire with the grenade launcher, the grenade will explode whathever it hits, and you'll never commit suicide because it bouce back into your face. And the RL22 has just one rocket, as it should be: Use it, discard it! Have a good life and deal with it!!

Can I mention his multiple-use watch?? Very Happy

Now about the multiplayer mode. I must say, it's not one of the best. I've already said that I like it more than Goldeneye multiplayer, but it's because TWINE has AI bots.
You need two clips of pistol bullets to kill one opponent, shooting his body, but only one single 9mm pistol bullet in the head to kill him?? And i'm not mentioning body armors here. It is weird, and annoying sometimes, as the weapons seems to fire slower.

The multiplayer maps are smaller, but we have only four persons playing at the same time. The AI Bots are a bit different from GE/PD, as they hardly runs for better weapons or protection. They just pick whatever they see (or not, as TWINE have starting weapons) and ran at others players. I think it was done because of the small level sizes or the small players amount, or both. It is not a great multiplayer game at all... it's fun from time to time, if you like bots and Goldeneye can't offer them.

Overall, I can only say the same thing: The game is underrated. But to end the post, I'll summarize some things I said and point some things not to confuse who's reading:

1- TWINE is NOT my favourite game, neither my favourite FPS. It's just a game that I grew with, and is precious for me... sadly not for many.

2- Perfect dark will always be my favourite FPS, but I find the TWINE missions even more exciting than both GE and PD together.

3- Ocarina of Time is my favourite game, if you're wondering after all those fanboy-ish words.

4- I know I've done several comparations with TWINE and GE/PD. I love both games, and I've done it to express how TWINE is a great game compared to these two monsters.

Now, I want to play Midnight Departure again, and very stealtly. I'll turn off the computer right now and enjoy my N64 again. Till the next, guys!!


-Mauro.
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Kerr Avon
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 PostPosted: Tue Oct 30, 2012 10:11 am    Post subject: Re: 007 - The World Is Not Enough Reply with quote Back to top

I really like TWINE, too, and agree that it's massively under-rated by a lot of people, and it surprises me how vehemently some people hate it. I've seen people say things like it's the worst N64 game they've ever played, but I think it's great. The levels are very atmospheric, and do a great job of imitating the film's sets, the skiing level works very well, the wrist-watch functions are mostly great (the grappling hook thing feels contrived, though, since you can only use it on certain spots), and overall the game does feel more like a James Bond game should than Goldeneye. I do prefer Goldeneye to TWINE, but TWINE does beat it in the you-are-James-Bond stakes, what with the swimming, the skiing, the saving M's life, etc.

It does have some flaws (what doesn't), though, such as:

- I don't like the way when you pick up an enemy's weapon it only has a few bullets - I know some people would argue that it's (a) realistic, and (b) forces you to be more careful with your ammo, but I always prefer a game to give you lots of ammo,

- Some of the weapons 'feel' weak, though that is a subjective feeling, I know others might feel differently,

- I don;t like the way in multiplayer you can't see what a weapon is when it's lying on the ground, instead you see a box,

- The bots aren't very good, though at least it has bots, unlike Goldeneye. Also, you should have more than four bots, as Captrue the Flag games needs more than two players per team to be really good,

- I hate the way good characters cannot oppose good characters in the multiplayer (this was a clause in the contract between Eurocom and MGM, and was forced on the games' designers by MGM, who own the Bond film rights),

- I really wish there were unlockable cheats in the game (again, MGM forbade them),

- There's no big fight with the enemy boss, as there should always be in a Bond game.

Overall though, it's a great game, and one of my favourite FPS ever. Two of it's developers, called Skeleton, and Dr Zhivago, used to post on the Gamefaqs.com TWINE board, and they told us some interesting facts. What I remember is that, before Goldeneye, Bond games weren't too popular (as they were mostly rubbish), so when Goldeneye went stellar, and was the game EVERYONE loved, the James Bond license for computer games shot up in value. So when Rare bought the license for Goldeneye, they didn't play much relatively speaking (I don't know how much, and it was Nintendo who paid it) and for that they got the rights to use everthing connected with Bond and the film Goldeneye, except for the character Jack Wade, who MGM don't own the cpyright to - which is why Wade doesn't appear in the Goldeneye game but lots of non-Goldeneye characters do, such as Oddjob, Jaws, and Mayday.

But after Goldeneye, interest in Bond games increased massively, so when Eurocom wanted to buy the license to make a game based on The World is Not Enough, MGM not only demanded more money, but wanted money for each separate bit of Bond related stuff, which is why TWINE does not have either the traditional Bond opening (Bond walking on and shooting the camera), or the traditional Bond music, as MGM wouldn't let them use these unless Eurocom paid even more money.

Also, MGM were much more careful of the Bond license now that it was worth so much, so unlike with Goldeneye, where they had basically not said much about what should be in the game, with TWINE MGM said Bond could not cheat (so Eurocom couldn't include any cheats), no blood, and good characters could not fight good (so no good vs good in multiplayer, which if you ask me is just stupid - people should be allowed to play who they like). Also, Q doesn't appear in the multiplayer, as the actor who played him died whilst the game was being made, I can't remember if his removal from the game was decided by MGM or Eurocom. His player model does still exist in the game, though, and you can play as him, but only by using a Gameshark or other cheat device.

Obligatory legal notice: The above is from memory only, and might be wrong in any particular, so neither Eurocom, Skeleton, or Dr Zhivago are responsible if I've remembered anything wrong or confused it with something else.
 
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 PostPosted: Tue Oct 30, 2012 2:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

Ironically, it sounds as though MGM was responsible for many of the major flaws and missing features in TWINE. Perhaps if Eurocom had more of the same freedom Rareware had with GoldenEye 007, they might have put out a better product.
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SATURN_81
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 PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2012 3:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

for my TWINE is a good game (perhaps somewhat underrated), has good graphics, a good script, quite entertaining levels, very good weapons (with animations good) and generally a good solo mode. maybe in multiplayer is where the game loses steam, most levels have little to do with his solo version. artificial intelligence of the enemies is not very good (especially in multiplayer) and once you find an enemy in multiplayer to remain static on the site, they do not usually do much more.

TWINE truly is a game with great graphics show respect, weapons, game modes. (Also Turok, Quake, Duke Nukem, Doom). this and so many other games I have not had the same attention when they are created, for example the gameplay. and there is also another aspect that many games the rest Diferença like the engine used. TWINE would think as if he had fallen into the hands of "Rare" because maybe then every game would have been better appreciated. if every shooter ever since N64 is the PD engine (hopefully) to make a mod, you can change the view of the players in addition to desire a return to the past.
 
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MAURO
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 PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2012 10:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

Interesting facts, man. I didn't knew these... I always wondered why TWINE hadn't bond theme or the intro featured on the films.

Well, I like the idea of boxes instead of weapons lying in the ground. It could be even better if the box where randomized. It could add some more action to the multiplayer Very Happy

I also like the idea of fewer ammo picked from enemies. The game is very hard in 00 agent mode, and I'm not a big fan of shooting a thousand of bullets in a corridor with only two enemies Cool Except for Black (PS2). Loved that game!
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Bond: Your last chance! Give me the name!!

Lachaise: You still threat me, even without your weapon??

Bond: *BANG!*
 
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Wreck
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 PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2012 1:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

It's funny how I keep reading that people think TWINE had great graphics, considering I personally thought the characters looked like crap. It seemed more pixelated and jaggy than GoldenEye in most aspects.
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 PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2012 2:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

TWINE levels were decent looking, but characters were awful faces. Why you ask? They used 64 x 64 16-color images...you need many more colors for faces, which is why they're bad. GE did 3 64 x 32 256 color. They did have nice shadows I suppose.
 
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zoinkity
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 PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2012 2:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

Actually it had to be more pixelated and jagged. The game, by default, doesn't use the built-in on-chip antialiaser for some idiotic reason.

Controls were stiff and poorly mapped, mission design somewhat boring, and their explosions weren't just lame but had arcane rules dicating damage. There's no way anyone can ignore that the sticky bomb kills baseed on a very strict distance-from test, regardless of geometry, with 100% lethality and no visible effect--unless you're a sim, in which case it will probably only take half damage.
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Sogun
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 PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2012 4:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

I haven't played the game so my opinion is based on some videos I've seen on youtube...

About the graphics: overall I think they are very good. Backgrounds are well modelled, with lots of different textures, some destructible parts, cool alpha and reflection effects... textures aren't as crisp as in GE but that's probably because they used a lot of them on each level and had to lower resolution to fit in memory. Guns are well modelled and the reload animations are amazing. Enemies have their own shadows and aren't as blocky as in GE, but I prefer Rare's game since proportions seem more right to me. Faces are bad, I only liked Bond's head.
I think they didn't used the right color spectrum for textures, everything seems bright and cartoonish. GE was better in that. Lastly, I loved rooms with wood, it was like looking to a different game!

Animation for cutscenes are superb, but ingame enemies don't move like human beings XDD Aiming seems to be awful but as I haven't played I can't tell. I didn't like voice acting, it had very poor quality, or perhaps it was youtube...

About level design. I have only seen until level 6 (the mansion) and they mainly seem very linear and with no free roaming or "sandbox feeling". But the mansion level was different, I liked that because it looked more like my favourite GE levels (Frigate and Archives). The X-ray vision was very cool too. Not like the other levels were bad, but I think they don't have too much replayable value, if you know what I mean.

Well, that's all I can say after 30 minutes of youtube Wink
 
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zoinkity
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 PostPosted: Thu Nov 01, 2012 5:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

No, the voice acting really was that terrible. The worst offender is that generically-european, possibly Glockistani, "Boond es Hair".

Sadly, the textures are much, much larger than GEs. Virtually every one of them is a 64x64 indexed, and despite them being, on their own, pretty good (which they should be, since most came from the standard library), they were applied to surfaces at too low a proportion, so you never see anything but the second mipmap of each (half size)--even with your nose pressed against it. So in other words they might as well have used 16x16s, since those are the only images used during rendering. As an interesting fluke, that means that some emulators will actually make the game look better than console since they don't support mipmapping in the first place o.0

The engine is borrowed, actually. Eurocom used the same one for their last three titles. It's also psychotically inefficient, keeping nothing in memory past its first use. Yes people, in TWINE there is no advantage reusing the same prop since it is reloaded between instances.
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 PostPosted: Thu Nov 01, 2012 8:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

What other games before TWINE used the same engine ?

I wikipedia'd Eurocom, I could only guess Duke Nukem Zero Hour is one of em ?

Oh wow, it seems that they devved Nightfire as well
 
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SilverEye
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 PostPosted: Thu Nov 01, 2012 10:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

TWINE
I used to play it a bit, long time ago though. I still remember me just lasering everyone in the first level for fun haha Laughing
Overall, a good game, only characters moved like they they broke their limbs-a bit crappy-and, like sogun said before, no feeling of being free, like in goldeneye. oo7/10 Very Happy
 
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zoinkity
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 PostPosted: Thu Nov 01, 2012 3:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

All of Eurocom's N64 games use the same engine except Crusin' World. Controls changed, but everything--even NBA Showtime--used the exact same generic engine.

The same data struture system was used in MK4, Zer0 H0ur, Tarzan, and 40 Winks as well. NBA Showtime used the same lookup method but a simplified table system that treated everything as the same object cluster. If you tell it to ignore the first step of the first step (object index lookup) the exact same parser works for its data as well.
Eventually they skipped from the standard N64 audio library to their own crazy one, but the engine otherwise was open and generic--much like Acclaim's Quagmire engine.

They're annoying to index though due to the heavy interreferencing nonsense it pulls. There's one master table that only references other table lists. From there, everything else is unindexed; you only know related object tables from their references.
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Kerr Avon
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 PostPosted: Fri Nov 02, 2012 2:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

It's true that TWINE's enemy AI was disappointing, as they rarely roamed or followed you as you'd have expected them to, but I didn't feel that this was a problem in single player mode as you tended to shoot them on sight anyway. In multiplayer it was more of a problem, but even bad bots are better than none, and the bots in TWINE are at least better than the ones in Duke Nukem 64, though of course light years behind the ones in Perfect Dark.

Also, the game could have done with more random things, such as the way in the Tube (underground railway level) the bomb is always in the same place, it shoudl have varied to give more replayability. Granted Goldeneye didn't have a lot of randomization (though it had some), but for whatever reasons GE just has lots more replayability even without it, whereas randomization would have helped TWINE to be more replayable.

And yes, the single player levels were mostly very linear, but I don't think that this was a problem mostly, since you were fighting your way through so the linearity didn't shout out at you, except for a couple of times when you were going through the streets and it seemed strange that there was only one way through, especially when running along the roof tops.

But my biggest complaint about TWINE (and I can't believe I forgot to mention this in my first post) is that in the level Midnight Departure, you fail automatically if anyone sees you, which is hugely frystrating. You should only fail if anywone who sees you gives the alarm, meaning that when they see you, you can still kill or knock them out before they get to the alarm switch. Aside from this, it's a good level, but the you-mustn't-even-be-seen draconian forced stealth aspect makes it by far the level in the game that I like the least. If the game only ended when the guards gave the alarm, not when they saw you, then this would be a great level, instead they ruined it by forcing stealth (and often a bit of luck) to be an absolute necessity.

But there was a lot to like in the game, too, such as the 'feel' of many of the levels (they could be very atmospheric), the way the controls allowed you to easily manipulate the gadgets, the way your objectives were given to you mid level or after an ingame event, unlike in Goldeneye or Perfect Dark, where somehow you knew every objective before you even started the mission. And most important of all, I just found the game to be a lot of fun. True, it was (to me, whose two favourite games ever are GE and PD) far, far behind Rare's two classics in almost every way, but it's still a great game.

And the multiplayer had a lot to recommend it, including lots of game modes, the ability to customise what the radar shows (unlike in PD, where you can only set the radar to On/Off, whereas I wanted to set PD's radar to show only the case and not the players/sims in Capture the Case mode), and some great maps (and some that I really didn't like, to be fair). It was a real pity that there were no cheats (I like playing through my favourite FPSs using only my favourite weapon and the infinite ammo cheat), and a real shame about the forced stealth in Midnight Departure. But the game did do much more to make you feel like Bond than Goldeneye did, though this of course doesn't necessarily make it a better game, and to me GE is much better.
 
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Sogun
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 PostPosted: Fri Nov 02, 2012 4:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

BTW, there was this other topic about TWINE from some months ago. There's some interesting reading there:
http://www.shootersforever.com/forums_message_boards/viewtopic.php?t=5817&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0

zoinkity wrote:
Sadly, the textures are much, much larger than GEs. Virtually every one of them is a 64x64 indexed, and despite them being, on their own, pretty good (which they should be, since most came from the standard library), they were applied to surfaces at too low a proportion, so you never see anything but the second mipmap of each (half size)--even with your nose pressed against it. So in other words they might as well have used 16x16s, since those are the only images used during rendering

Ouch, this has to be the most inefficient engine of all time Laughing

-So TWINE textures are 8 bits, at a size of 32x32 (there has to be some 64x32 too), but ingame they don't get better than 16x16. GE used lots of 64x64 4 bit textures, so the difference in texture quality between both games is huge.
-Texture repetition was done by creating new polygons for each repetiton instead of using UVs like any other game would do. This is basic texturing! Evil or Very Mad
-There's no antialising at all, even if the hardware did it by default and it wouldn't hurt performance.
-Many bad decisions in memory management.

But even with all these flaws, TWINE looks really good, it could have looked amazing if things were done with logic.

I didn't mentioned the water in my previous comment. Even if it didn't have any reaction with objects, the waving effect and the animated texture was excelent.
 
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