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GEX 5B Official Patch Released! @ 03-01-13
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Wreck
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 PostPosted: Sun Jan 19, 2014 8:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

I was working to get a 5c patch going toward the end of the year and at the beginning of the new, but ended up taking a break from it. Last I was making sure all the levels had their updated clipping files (which improve Simulant behavior and lessens their chances of falling out on stairwells and ramps). There isn't much left to really do for a release now. It's just hard when you get away from something to jump back on it, especially when you've already spent so much time on the project.

A specific update would regard "bulletproof glass" and the weapons that can penetrate through it. In GoldenEye, only the Cougar Magnum and Silver PP7 are capable of firing through special bulletproof glass, which is present in Facility. Since noticing that PD allowed only the DY357 Magnum and the FarSight XR-20 to do the same thing in their Felicity level, I asked Sub if he could look into it. He found the weapon ID's, and we've updated them to match GE. I changed the Facility setup file, so now it acts the same way. The AR33, RC-P90 and Moonraker Laser can no longer shoot through and injure players on the other side. This behaviour recreates the action from the original game, and makes those two handguns even more useful in that map.
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 PostPosted: Sun Jan 19, 2014 8:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

Great news. How are the firing rates for the GL and Moonraker Laser holding up? And were you able to remove the Recoil for it? Will Elevator 1 and 2 be added in this patch?
 
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 PostPosted: Sun Jan 19, 2014 9:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

Awesome stuff, good to see the project continuing. Take your time, good things come to those who wait. Smile
 
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Kerr Avon
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 PostPosted: Mon Jan 20, 2014 6:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

Thanks for the progress report. Will v5c allow us to walk around any of the single player levels, or is v5c a multiplayer only update?

Either way, I'm looking forward to it!
 
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 PostPosted: Mon Jan 20, 2014 6:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

Funny how after I ask for an update Wreck gives us an update.
Thanks for the update! Looking forward !
 
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 PostPosted: Mon Jan 20, 2014 7:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

Just noticed that the bulletproof glass feature update now evens the odds against simulants. Since they currently don't shoot at the bulletproof glass in facility. Wreck I have to ask, didn't you mention in the fifth patch thread (the one you were working on v5b with) that you removed the simulants from shooting at the bulletproof glass in GEX?

I have been testing it out and in Perfect Dark simulants can shoot at the Bulletproof glass equivalent in Felicity. Playing the "Simulants" preset game (bot buffet in GEX)(which btw needs the meatsims renamed to Weaksims) I noticed that the meatsims didn't bother shooting the bulletproof glass but the normalsims did. Now I've been thinking Wreck don't you believe it is in the best interest of the simulants if they have a fair game if they can also be able to shoot at the bulletproof glass like in PD? This would even the odds especially now with those three weapons you mentioned not being able to penetrate through them. I mean I think the harder the simulant is the more reason they need to be able to shoot through the bulletproof glass window only atleast at a difficulty setting. Human players that maybe really good pros can have an advantage if harder simulants can't shoot at the window at them. Also I have a theory that this operation of the simulants may be the reason why they cannot shoot while waiting for the doors to open/close in Caverns. Just something you might want to look into while you're at it.
 
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Wreck
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 PostPosted: Mon Jan 20, 2014 9:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

Here's the issue with Simulants and "invincible" glass. While a human player can fire through the object with any weapon that is capable of penetrating multiple targets, the same isn't said for Simulants. They could stand there on the opposite side of the glass and launch an assault of AR33 bullets at you, but none of those rounds will actually come into contact with your body. This leaves them at a major disadvantage, and opens them up to an easy kill. By having them completely avoid the windows in Facility, they'll go straight for the doors. That way, humans can't line up a perfect headshot while Sims stand in place wasting ammo in a fruitless effort to kill their opponent. At least, that's the way I remember it being in my tests. If anyone else wants to confirm, they could try playing against a Sim in Felicity with all DY357 Magnums. Not the LX version, though. For some reason, it was never setup to fire through bulletproof glass.

I will be including some empty mission levels for players to run around in. Most will have their clipping in a nearly finalized state, barring any changes needed for player or Simulant movement and behaviour.

The elevator tracks probably won't be included this release, but will be put down on a list of things to do at another time.

As for the weapon firing rates and recoil, I did come up with an idea to help set them up better. Using a GameShark to hack Perfect Dark while comparing to GoldenEye side-by-side. Trying to match the last few up, and hoping Simulants will respond to it. Weapons with a special animation (like the Magnum and GL) are treated differently by Sims. Humans have a slight delay, which they don't encounter. Just one of the reasons it's been hard to set them up at the right speed all-around. The Sniper and Moonraker using GE's original values may seem fine for a human player, but Sims unload them like a machine gun.
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 PostPosted: Mon Jan 20, 2014 10:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

I can confirm that you sir are correct. When I checked before I was using different weapons in the set with a DY357 Magnum and only saw the simulants shooting using another weapon not the magnum. I just tried it with the set up you suggested and you're right. So everything you said makes sense instead of having them stand their shooting at you pointlessly without getting hurt. Atleast what I said on my last post still stands in that us humans don't have many options in the weapon department to use with the way you fixed it up now! Only time we can hurt them through the bulletproof glass is if we are equipped with either a Cougar Magnum or Silver PP7. Still though, they do move around pretty fast opening doors. Twisted Evil

Wooo! It will be fun to move around some of the empty mission levels. I will definitely be checking that out.

No problem I can hold off on the Elevator tracks. It's just that I love the Dick Tracy one so much!

The only recoil is for the Moonraker Laser it probably shouldn't be too difficult to remove. I hope the same for the firing rates. Me and SATURN_81 had a theory that maybe you could've tried changing the weapon slots of the GL and Moonraker Laser to the SuperDragon GL function's slot and the Mauler's primary function slot for the Laser.

Thanks once again for the update reports. Smile
 
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Wreck
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 PostPosted: Tue Jan 21, 2014 11:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

Thanks to Sub, both elevator tracks have been included in the soundtrack list. I still need to test to make sure the table extension works perfectly (especially with the random functions), but so far it seems good.

Little update for firing rates. I did get to test on console using a GameShark to mod the rates of weapons to try and better match GoldenEye. Here are my results...

Moonraker Laser:
This is now a very, very close match. I think the GE original may fire only a hair faster. It might be matchable if I tweak the "time between shots" value ever so slightly. The Simulants do fire it quickly, but you should be able to keep the pace if you repeatedly press the trigger, rather than hold it in. There's still a minor amount of recoil going on, which I'll try to remove if possible.

Cougar Magnum and Grenade Launcher:
Now, believe it or not, these two weapons have the same firing rate. With that information, I tackled the Cougar first. It was fine before (in 5b) when it came to holding the trigger down, but you could fire a little faster than in GoldenEye by rapidly pressing the trigger button. I did get a new value that matches it more closely. However, because the Sims do not experience the same delay humans do (caused by the spinning cylinder animation), they can fire quicker than that (same thing happens in Perfect Dark). It seemed as though they could get off 6 rounds by the time you reach the fifth.

So, here's the deal. Either we have these weapons fire at roughly the same rate as in GE007, and slow down the reload time Simulants require as a compensation for them being quicker shots, or we fire about as fast as they can (by being very trigger happy), which is different from the original game. We can only have this one way or the other. Take your pick.
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Kerr Avon
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 PostPosted: Wed Jan 22, 2014 7:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

Wreck wrote:
...
So, here's the deal. Either we have these weapons fire at roughly the same rate as in GE007, and slow down the reload time Simulants require as a compensation for them being quicker shots, or we fire about as fast as they can (by being very trigger happy), which is different from the original game. We can only have this one way or the other. Take your pick.


Personally I'd be fine with it either way, but if I have to chose, I'd say keep the firing speeds as they are, and maybe slow down the reload for the sims. But I'm really not that bothered (exact accuracy of weapon statistics and performance doesn't bother me, but I'd be very disappointed if you removed any of the multiplayer stages from GEX!).
 
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 PostPosted: Wed Jan 22, 2014 9:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

Well you lack the motivation to work on the project then just think about all of the people around the world who have been talking about Goldeneye X. Then think of all of the cool things you will be able to implement into the mod as long as you keep trying. I myself frequently gain, and lose motivation when modding my own project. It can get boring, and it can be disheartening when you get stuck and can't seem to figure out how to make an idea work. You don't know where to dig in ram, or even if you do things don't work out. Though in the end you always get lucky and things work out. You may end up bashing your head, raging inside, and feeling down. Eventually though it works out, and you succeed, and the feeling is something that is worth all the trouble in the end.

I need to work on my project now instead of procrastinating haha. Guess I'll do that, and delve into editing animations for the first time. I know learning this is gonna start out just swell and fun *Coughs* Not really* Cough* I'll be glad once I've gotten the learning process for this over with, just like I was with D-List Porting (Which now that I've learned it, I see it's actually pretty easy lol).
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Wreck
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 PostPosted: Wed Jan 22, 2014 2:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

It's certainly easy to lose motivation on any project, but when you're coming up on four years (even shocking to myself), it feels like an eternity of work. And some of that work is ironing out kinks that still exist from the beginning. I'm just amazed and honoured that there are people following GoldenEye X. Guys who have stuck around for a few years, eagerly waiting to try out the new patches whenever they become available. It's these gamers who really do give you a reason to push on. So thank you to the fans, not only for the continued support, but also for your important feedback. Smile

I guess if Rare didn't care too much that Sims had the ability to fire certain weapons faster than humans in PD (I think both magnums and the shotgun), than it shouldn't be as big of a deal as I've made it out to be in my mind. I always play against EliteSims (DarkSims) when testing, and they're more fierce than anybody. I don't know if a WeakSim would unload a Grenade Launcher as quickly as an Elite. Worth a quick look.
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 PostPosted: Wed Jan 22, 2014 4:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

Wreck wrote:
Thanks to Sub, both elevator tracks have been included in the soundtrack list. I still need to test to make sure the table extension works perfectly (especially with the random functions), but so far it seems good.

Little update for firing rates. I did get to test on console using a GameShark to mod the rates of weapons to try and better match GoldenEye. Here are my results...

Moonraker Laser:
This is now a very, very close match. I think the GE original may fire only a hair faster. It might be matchable if I tweak the "time between shots" value ever so slightly. The Simulants do fire it quickly, but you should be able to keep the pace if you repeatedly press the trigger, rather than hold it in. There's still a minor amount of recoil going on, which I'll try to remove if possible.

Cougar Magnum and Grenade Launcher:
Now, believe it or not, these two weapons have the same firing rate. With that information, I tackled the Cougar first. It was fine before (in 5b) when it came to holding the trigger down, but you could fire a little faster than in GoldenEye by rapidly pressing the trigger button. I did get a new value that matches it more closely. However, because the Sims do not experience the same delay humans do (caused by the spinning cylinder animation), they can fire quicker than that (same thing happens in Perfect Dark). It seemed as though they could get off 6 rounds by the time you reach the fifth.

So, here's the deal. Either we have these weapons fire at roughly the same rate as in GE007, and slow down the reload time Simulants require as a compensation for them being quicker shots, or we fire about as fast as they can (by being very trigger happy), which is different from the original game. We can only have this one way or the other. Take your pick.


Yes! Happy we get the Elevator Musics again.

For the moonraker Laser I say slightly tweak the "time between shots" value as close as possible to match up to the original and then try and work on removing the recoil.

Cougar Magnum/Grenade Launcher - My pick is keep the same rate as in GE007 and try to slow down the reload times for the simulants.

Great work. I'm glad you were able to fix up the firing rates tremendously already. Don't rush, take your time with these issues till you know you got it right.

By the way, Thank You SubDraaagg!!! Very Happy
 
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 PostPosted: Wed Jan 22, 2014 6:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

Let me tell ya' Wreck, if you can make a patch for PD that keeps those blasted sims from cheating firing rates and reloads I'd give you a kitten.

Whatever yahoo thought it would be a good idea to let sims fire magnums semi-automatic needs their back against a wall. It's deadly enough when they go to town with explosive phoenix rounds, and thankfully their fire rate is high enough not every round will explode (sad in its own right), but nothing is worse than hurricane fists and semi-automatic magnum rounds.
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 PostPosted: Thu Jan 23, 2014 12:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

Oh man, everytime there is an update on a patch the 90's teenager in me rejoices, awesome work. Cant wait!


In regards to the glass in the facility not being perforated by weapons other than the Cougar, I am positive the developers did intend other weapons like the RCP and the M16 to be used too. Other wise why would they allow the bullets to go through in the original game? It seems like a bug to me that they don't do any damage themselves but they do punch through visually if I remember correctly.

Besides it seems like the only object in the game that behaves that way, being perforated exclusively by the magnum and not other weapons. I dunno, what do you guys think?
 
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