GoldenEye 007 Nintendo 64 Community, GoldenEye X, Nintendo 64 Games Discussion

[Kerr Avon]

Reading the other topic (about playing PD with the Enemy Rockets cheat, at http://www.shootersforever.com/forums_message_boards/viewtopic.php?t=6289), made me wonder if a non-lethal play-through of PD is possible?

Thanks to PD's flexibility, you can set yourself a lot of different challenges*, but unlike say the Thief or Deus Ex games, I've never heard of anyone playing a non-lethal game of PD. This is where you complete the game without killing anyone (well, except for the ones who must die or the game will not continue - i.e. in Deus Ex, you can complete the game by only killing three people, everyone else you can sneak/run past or knock out).

In PD, you could use the crossbow (with the All Weapons and Infinite Ammunition cheats) of course, but that works *too* well - since it knocks people out immediately with one shot, then not only would it fulfill the criteria of a non-lethal play-through, but it would actually be easier than the normal game, at least in part, since since the crossbow is faster at stopping the enemy than most weapons (one hit from the crossbow versus several hits from another weapon), at least for those who can't get consistent head-shots when playing. On the minus side, you'd lose the ability to zoom in, but overall I'd think the plus side of using the crossbow would outweigh the minus, for many people, so it's no good for non-lethal play-throughs, as the point of these challenges is to make the game harder not easier.

But now I'm wondering if a non-lethal run would be practical using the Tranquiliser? I'm not at home now, so I can't try it, and I can't remember (I never use the Tranquiliser), what effect does the Tranquiliser have on an enemy (a single player mode NPC) if you hit them with the tranquilser setting (not the one hit kill setting of the weapon) repeatedly - do they just reach a point of dizziness that doesn't increase, or do they (after sufficient shots from the Tranquiliser) go unconscious?

If the former, then when they are dizzy, you can take the opportunity to punch them out or pistol whip them, until they lose consciousness. If the latter, then enough Tranquiliser shots will of course fulfill the non-lethal specification of the play-though.

Note of course that like all special weapon play-throughs, there are times when you need to use a certain weapon (and do the Tranquilisers even work on Skedar?), but these are acceptable, it's just that you must use the specified weapon (in this case the Tranquiliser gun) where at all possible.

[SubDrag]

I've tried it before on Perfect Agent, it's fun but difficult (without cheats), and I don't know if I complete any except maybe the first level. Only weapons related to actual objective may be used.

[zoinkity]

If memory serves, their head rolls around and their accuracy drops, but it doesn't prevent them hurting you. Only problem is the AI still remains clairvoyant. Should work on Skedar, at least if you hit them in the head-tail thingy.

There's always the unarmed/disarm option. Attempting to disarm your way through would be possible to a point, except when those guys start to unload a million punches a minute or Skedar OHKO. Not sure what you'd do about CI:defense.

Problem is, the game is less sneaky than GE was, and that wasn't very sneaky itself. If we're to trust the earlier scripts, it seems they sort of got rid of any espionage angle they had.
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[Rey]

When I first read the topic I thought you meant Not taking hit. I never tried this. I do know some guards are cheep and have there guns stuck in there hands.
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[Kerr Avon]

SubDrag wrote:

I've tried it before on Perfect Agent, it's fun but difficult (without cheats), and I don't know if I complete any except maybe the first level. Only weapons related to actual objective may be used.

What did you try, a non-lethal run (as in knocking everyone out), or non-lethal as in making them dizzy and running past them (which would surely lead to problems (and slow-down!) when they recover and come after you)?

zoinkity wrote:

If memory serves, their head rolls around and their accuracy drops, but it doesn't prevent them hurting you. Only problem is the AI still remains clairvoyant. Should work on Skedar, at least if you hit them in the head-tail thingy.

I'll have to try it, when I get home. It probably is impractical/impossible, but it'll be interesting to try.

Quote:

There's always the unarmed/disarm option. Attempting to disarm your way through would be possible to a point, except when those guys start to unload a million punches a minute or Skedar OHKO.

True. Unlimited Combat Boot would be some help. Not all, but it's an option.

Quote:

Not sure what you'd do about CI:defense.

Yep.

Quote:

Problem is, the game is less sneaky than GE was, and that wasn't very sneaky itself. If we're to trust the earlier scripts, it seems they sort of got rid of any espionage angle they had.

Scripts? Do you mean the in-game (in the ROM file) human words that aren't used in-game? Or the scripted actions in the games, or real snippets of script that have been leaked to the public? If the latter, can you link to them please, as I've not heard of them. I did read, in an interview with a PD designer or programmer, that PD was supposed to involve optional stealth using darkness (which partially inspired the name), but this was dropped due to time constraints or them not being able to get everything to work as they wanted in the available time. The remaining result of these intentions is that you can darked a room by shooting out the lights (though of course for some reason the rooms never go totally dark).

Rey wrote:

When I first read the topic I thought you meant Not taking hit. I never tried this.

No, but of course that's possible, just set the skill setting to Perfect Dark mode, and the enemy damage to 1000%, which as far as I remember means you means you die from one hit of anything. It would have been good to have a setting for your own starting health, but I suppose we should just be grateful (and I am!) that Rare gave us what they did, as they really did go out of their way to give us so much re-playability in PD and GE.

BTW, does anyone know why Rare removed (or didn't add) the Enemy Reaction Time option to PD's fourth difficulty level, as they did with Goldeneye? If they had to leave one option out, I'm glad it was that one, as I think the other three are much better, but I'm curious to know why it was left out - perhaps they couldn't get the guards to respond ten times quicker (if the user set the Reaction Time option to 1000%), after all, PD is already pushing the N64 very hard.

Quote:

I do know some guards are cheep and have there guns stuck in there hands.

I didn't know that. Some (human) guards can't be disarmed? Which ones? Come to think of it, I can't recall if I've ever tried to disarm a Skedar, can they be disarmed? And I take it the human form of the Skedar can be disabled?

[Wreck]

I know we've come across the weapon disarming while testing for GEX. Knocking the gun out of a boss enemy's hands (like Xenia, Trevelyan or Jaws) would have made the mission far more easier than it should have been. I do believe there is a flag you can set on the character to prevent this from happening. It may even be supported in the Editor right now.
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[Kerr Avon]

Wreck wrote:

I know we've come across the weapon disarming while testing for GEX. Knocking the gun out of a boss enemy's hands (like Xenia, Trevelyan or Jaws) would have made the mission far more easier than it should have been. I do believe there is a flag you can set on the character to prevent this from happening. It may even be supported in the Editor right now.

I think weapon disarming should be in GE X, both single and multiplayer. It does seem a very James Bond thing to do, but even though I'd like it in GE X (I really like it in PD) I must admit I always felt that it's more the sort of thing that should be in a stealthier game than PD or GE. I mean, it might have been an idea to have disarming (in single player) only possible if the victim wasn't aware of your presence, as then he'd be more relaxed and so stealing his weapon would be a dozen times easier. But of course, Goldeneye and PD have very little stealth available (though still more than most straight first person shooters).

Anyway, if you do put it in GE X's single player, then I agree that it should only work on non-bosses (i.e. not 006, Xenia, etc), and even then only on the less significant enemies.

[zoinkity]

Crazy crazy, they accidentally compiled in multiple versions of per-stage text. Somewhere back in the forums there was an analysis, etc.

Guards aren't infinite. Just like GE there's a cap at which more won't spawn. The main problem lies in that you can't get rid of them.

Being cheap with disarm is correctable. There's nothing preventing a tiny hack to read the unaware state and only apply disarm then. The big problem is the AI completely freaking cheats. Nothing like an impossibly fast salvo of blows, some of which are disarms and the rest punches, that fall outside the normal punch range. Dark fist sims anyone?
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[Rey]

Actually drones and explosions don't cause an instant death in DLTK. Unless you get blowed directly by a an explosion.
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[Maxout]

I've pushed myself with this game enough as it is. I have taken a very long time with the pistol before.

I 'think' I beat the game with the pistol with infinite ammo at the parts that require it. You need the rocket launcher or something better to destroy the aircrafts throughout the game.

Essentially, I don't want to invent too many ways to make it absurdly hard when many couldn't even try legitly.
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[Rey]

Maxout wrote:

Essentially, I don't want to invent too many ways to make it absurdly hard when many couldn't even try legitly.

Well I believe those are the ones that never truly loved or appreciated the game.
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[Maxout]

Not hard to tell I gave up too easy on PD LTK and DLTK. I know a single segment run on Perfect Agent is a real challenge. Haven't felt too apt to do it but maybe I can wipe off the dust.
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