GoldenEye 007 Nintendo 64 Community, GoldenEye X, Nintendo 64 Games Discussion

[Jhirmer614]

Well today i was fumbling through the internet trying to find more leaked info on GoldenEye XBLA (Without any luck) but i did go back and watched the leaked footage of Silo when i noticed something in the video...

THE SCIENTIST IS MISSING HIS **** HEAD!!!!!!

[Dragonsbrethren]

I think everyone did. Definitely an amusing bug, especially with that surrender pose.

[zoinkity]

There was a general problem with rendering distances. The ICBM just sort of appeared in the silo, for instance.

In a way it's rather thankful it wasn't rereleased ;*)
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[Dragonsbrethren]

Yeah, it was definitely a rough build. Hopefully this thing gets leaked eventually, I'm kind of surprised it hasn't already.

[Jhirmer614]

Dragonsbrethren wrote:

Yeah, it was definitely a rough build. Hopefully this thing gets leaked eventually, I'm kind of surprised it hasn't already.

The day that happens is the day i fully mod my 360 to play that crap.

[zoinkity]

There's something the Wii never got proper credit for: it's the most easily moddable platform of that generation. You could play the original GE via emulation on a Wii using nothing more than an SD card--without even touching the OS.

It would be interesting to know if the "texture updates" are merely the original, unscaled textures getting swapped in.
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[PacmanPlush]

zoinkity wrote:

There's something the Wii never got proper credit for: it's the most easily moddable platform of that generation. You could play the original GE via emulation on a Wii using nothing more than an SD card--without even touching the OS. It would be interesting to know if the "texture updates" are merely the original, unscaled textures getting swapped in.

Has it ever been determined what the exact release plans for GE on the Wii were? Offhand, I'm not sure if it was even clarified whether the game was to be a Virtual Console or WiiWare release. (The latter would have allowed for leaderboards and even online multiplayer!) We've only ever seen media from the 360 version, which was a Halo: Anniversary style remake of the original that would've let players switch between the original 1997 models and textures, and the updated HD versions--which, much like Perfect Dark's HD remaster, varied in their levels of faithfulness, compare these two shots:

http://mundorare.com/news/wp-content/uploads/2008/10/ss-goldeneye-xbla-mundorare-dam-after.png
http://mundorare.com/news/wp-content/uploads/2008/10/ss-goldeneye-xbla-mundorare-dam-before.png

(Haven't embedded them in case MundoRare doesn't like that--I'd recommend opening each in a separate tab and clicking back and forth to compare.) As can be seen, the updated textures on the door and tower clearly used the originals as a base, proportions and the positions of line details are identical. (Check the brick wall through the windows: completely identical, just more detail!) The geometry of the tower itself is completely unchanged, as well. However, the guard and his weapon are entirely new models with less-than-faithful textures. Same story for the ground, which now has snow, and the metal railings around the dam, which are now fully 3D and include a 3D snow mound.

720p resolution (and likely 60fps) aside, there's nothing in GoldenEye's remaster that could not have been done on the Wii--the geometry is not significantly changed from the N64 original and even the new character models don't look to be inordinately high-poly. Granted, most of the textures look better than anything I've seen on the Wii but they'd be downgraded along with the resolution--textures of that quality would be overkill at 480p.

What throws a wrench in the works is the limited file size available for downloadable titles on the Wii. For reference, Perfect Dark's XBLA HD remaster weighed in at around 239MB. The Wii only has 512MB of storage, minus a decent chunk for reserved space, system files and default channels. It's tough to say how this would apply to GoldenEye--it benefits through not having any digital speech (and less sound effects), and the textures would be made somewhat smaller for the Wii edition. WiiWare and Virtual Console titles have a strict limit of 40MB--the largest WiiWare game, Strong Bad's Cool Game For Attractive People, is 321 "blocks," or 40.125MB--this indicates some level of rounding in the block count. Simply put, it is highly unlikely that Rare could have managed anything similar to what they accomplished on the 360. Even though the Wii's hardware is technically capable of approximating (in a lower resolution) the graphics seen in the 360 version, the limited filesize would have killed it.

But this is all assuming that Rare would've even tried to achieve some level of parity between the Wii and X360 versions. I could be mistaken but I don't think we've ever heard an official statement about what the Wii release would've entailed. For all we know, Rare was only prepared to release the original rom using the Virtual Console, perhaps with the control schemes modified to allow players to use the dual-analog sticks on their Classic or GameCube controllers. Updated textures, I think, was purely speculation. Maybe they'd have been, as you wondered, the original full-res textures as prepared for the N64 version, or maybe they'd have been reworks of the new graphics created for the 360 version.

(Actually, has there been any case where the VC version of an N64 game received improved graphics? Resolution aside, I mean--I remember reading previews when the service launched that stated Mario 64 now runs in 480p.)

Everything above is irrelevant with the launch of the Wii U. I've seen a lot of recent speculation (nothing from any legitimate sources, granted) that Rare and Nintendo might try again--the cancellation of the first effort was allegedly due to Nintendo's concerns over the Wii version being inferior to the 360 version, but this isn't a problem with the Wii U. I'd imagine Rare is currently focusing its efforts on the Xbox One, but once the launch is dealt with--who knows?
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[Dragonsbrethren]

I probably couldn't find a source now if I wanted to, but I remember reading that only XBLA was getting the enhancements and the Wii was going to be limited to a virtual console release. I only remember this because I said I probably would've pulled the plug on the project too, were I in Nintendo's shoes. They definitely could've done the enhanced port on the Wii, even if it had to be sold at retail. I mean, look at Eurocom/Activision's Wiimake. It's very impressive looking, maybe not the same texture quality, but certainly more detailed geometry than the port.

Speaking of that, another curiosity, the N64 Dam geometry is in that Wiimake:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T_akmxxA5rI

Dam, the beginning at least, was the most faithful part of the game. That might explain it's presence. Maybe this was used as a basis or guide for the start of the final mission's background. I still can't help but wonder why this is there, though. It's definitely the original background with minor changes, like the paper thin railings being given thickness. Did it come from Rare? That would imply there was some sort of collaboration at one time. Of course, it may have simply been ripped from an emulator or even using the setup editor, so I'm not going to read too much into it.

[SubDrag]

Heh, what are the chances one of the random posts on "how do I extract geometry from Setup Editor" was used that to make that? :p The editor doesn't export vertex shading for level (unless you know how to do it, which isn't well publicized), so if it has vertex shading it's probably not from editor. I'm assuming Free Radical/Rare didn't give them a copy. I'm not sure, but it could also be related to when Free Radical made the Dam (I think was mentioned in some interview), and I think the publisher was Activision there too and it got through. But that's a longshot.

It's definitely a curiosity. Perhaps they had hoped to incorporate the original geometry, or as a bonus, but it probably wouldn't be usable for their game; as it's not big enough/complex enough, or in the same style, at least from what I played. Or maybe they just used it as a model for the redo of the level, and didn't rid of it.

[Dragonsbrethren]

Free Radical? You sure you don't mean someone else, that's the first I've ever heard of them being involved in any way. I thought they were out of business long before this was even a rumor.

[SubDrag]

Dragonsbrethren wrote:

Free Radical? You sure you don't mean someone else, that's the first I've ever heard of them being involved in any way. I thought they were out of business long before this was even a rumor.

Their making of a Dam level was in this article that Sogun posted:
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2012-05-04-free-radical-vs-the-monsters

It's very possible free radical was out of business before GoldenEye: Reloaded started development though.

[Dragonsbrethren]

Oh yeah, you're right! I completely forgot that they were offered to work on the remake.

Edit: Really makes you wonder how much Activision was the problem with the port not getting released, and not solely Nintendo. I'd really like to hear the full story one of these days, it'll probably never happen, though.

[PacmanPlush]

Dragonsbrethren wrote:

Oh yeah, you're right! I completely forgot that they were offered to work on the remake. Edit: Really makes you wonder how much Activision was the problem with the port not getting released, and not solely Nintendo. I'd really like to hear the full story one of these days, it'll probably never happen, though.

This is about as close as we'll get, for now: http://mundorare.com/news/2008/10/one-last-martini-to-goldeneye/

MundoRare have shown to be a trustworthy source for insider Rare info; they were the ones who released all those never before seen prototype GE images a while back. According to their sources, Activision had greenlit the project and, with the issues between Nintendo and Microsoft solved, looked forward to its release. This all happened in late 2008, right around the release of Activision's Quantum of Solace game, and a bit less than two years before the announcement of the Wiimake (henceforth referred to as GE 2010), which was officially announced by Nintendo at E3 2010. (Strange, right? Nintendo presumably had nothing to do with the game's development, but they did publish it in Japan*.) When the project fell through, Activision was left without a Bond game to release, and we lost our chance at seeing a remastered version of an old favourite.

It's my belief that GE 2010 was Activision's way of completing this failed project and giving gamers what they wanted but couldn't have--essentially, doing what Rare had set out to do, while changing enough to avoid any legal issues. Unfortunately, this meant instead of getting the game we loved, we got a pale imitation of it. This does explain the otherwise bizarre decision to modernize the game's plot and reinvent most of the principal characters.

We've discussed this before, but the staggered release of GE 2010 and its enhanced PS3/360 version, GE: Reloaded, suggests to me that Nintendo still has some undisclosed legal ties to some aspect of GoldenEye--not necessarily its name, but perhaps the legal concept of a video game adaptation of the original film. There is no other way Activision would've chosen to stagger the release like they did. The game was clearly designed with Call of Duty fans in mind, and the principal market for that audience was on PS3 and 360, not Wii. Even more revealing is the fact that Reloaded was released exactly one year after the Wii version: November 2, 2010 on Wii, November 1, 2011 on 360 and PS3. Too coincidental to be anything but a contractually obligated exclusivity period. This may also explain why EA's attempt at resurrecting the GoldenEye name, GoldenEye: Rogue Agent, had nothing to do with the original film, save for a brief appearance by Xenia. Most notably, the GoldenEye satellite is nowhere to be found--instead, it's the nickname of the main character, who has his eye replaced with a gold cybernetic implant.

* - With regards to Nintendo publishing GE 2010 in Japan--Activision published it in every other region, but they generally don't publish their own games in Japan. All Call of Duty games since COD4 (except World at War, which wasn't released) have been published by Square Enix in Japan. CoD2 was published by Konami. The Guitar Hero series seems to be an exception, as far as I can tell it was published by Activision worldwide. This might have had something to do with competition against Konami's Bemani series, which encompasses such titles as Beatmania and Guitar Freaks, and served as an inspiration for Guitar Hero.
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