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GEX 5C-i Official Patch Released! @ 03-11-14
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acceptable67
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 PostPosted: Thu Oct 30, 2014 5:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

Really digging the two hand. Nice to see the reload animations coming together!
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 PostPosted: Thu Oct 30, 2014 6:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

Just a thought, it would be something to see the DD44 second fire as the magsec's 3 round burst. Would other weapons also have a secondary function or is it only pistols?
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 PostPosted: Thu Oct 30, 2014 6:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

Ooo BABY seeing the old weaps models with the PD hands+reloads are nothing short of awesome

Spanking new game for N64 !!!
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 PostPosted: Thu Oct 30, 2014 7:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

Many weapons will have secondary functions, but we'd have to come up with good ideas for some others. Obviously the standard pistols, and our trusty revolver, will use the Pistol Whip. The Sniper Rifle is using Crouch, since it is a kind of handy. We also currently have "Use Scope" for the AR33. A bunch of functions from PD were meant for futuristic weapons, so we can't use all of them. They need to be realistic and somewhat helpful for the 1990's world of James Bond.
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Trevor
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 PostPosted: Fri Oct 31, 2014 11:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

Definatly agreed. They have to be realistic.

I often wounder about optional scilencer in GEX. Im sure it has been discussed before and that its too different to GE but just thought id air it again to see what todays concencus was on it.

Just to clarify what I mean, is instead of pistol whip for PPK and MP5, they attach a scilencer (like in TWINE to name just 1 of many games).
It means you wouldnt actually pick up a scilenced PPK, it would always be just a PPK, but you go to secondary and its silenced.

The dissadvantage of a silencer is decreased accuriacy.
The advantage of a silencer is nearly 0 detection by AI (unless they see thair buddy fall hahahaha)

Im loving the Magnum Cartridges

Trev
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 PostPosted: Fri Oct 31, 2014 12:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

I won't flat out say that having a "Silencer" function is impossible, as I've never really looked into it. There is a way to change how you hold the weapon in secondary mode. That's probably an animation switch. You'd need to be able to create an animation that looks like you're attaching the supressor. My main concern is with the "hide parts" option. This isn't by function, but as a whole. You can show parts or hide them during an animation, but I'm not sure about when the gun is sitting idle. It may be possible. Something we'd need to look into.

Another issue that would be present is losing two weapons from GE, and having to shift others down. A lot of stuff is hardcoded by ID, or setup in special tables. We've already run into plenty of issues setting up the weapons in the order they are now (thank SubDrag for those corrections), and even more will pop up if we try and shift things like the projectile launchers around. They landed on the same positions as PD's, so we got quite lucky there. Even something as simple as a Pistol Whip has hardcodes to use the right hitting sound effects. It's nightmare to deal with, and we're still sorting little things out as we go.
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Rey
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 PostPosted: Fri Oct 31, 2014 10:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

For silence on and off Devastator reload might be good. Just a thought. But the turning would be a problem. Even so the D5K can't be left out to ya know.
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 PostPosted: Sat Nov 01, 2014 3:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

Ah yes, I know what you mean now... Yeah sorry I hadnt throught about the ordering, not to mention the completly new animation.
While animation editing is now possible in GE, I havnt tried the PD Side. I know most of the animations are playable, but hmm... I just thought... yeah I dont remember seeing any gun ani's in the list.

"For silence on and off Devastator reload might be good. Just a thought. But the turning would be a problem. Even so the D5K can't be left out to ya know."

D5k... I already said this using its real name, MP5k, hence the 2 lost slots.

Hmm... Hang on... How about 2 New Weapons to fill the lost slots?
Maybe from GF64?

As you say, we still need to do a new animation and of cource hope that visibility flags remain set after animation.

Trev
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Kerr Avon
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 PostPosted: Sat Nov 01, 2014 7:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

In The World is Not Enough, you could attatch/remove a silencer to your default pistol, but I don't know if it made a real gameplay difference in that with it equipped I can't remember if the enemies didn't hear it from as far as if the silencer was removed.
 
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 PostPosted: Sat Nov 01, 2014 8:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

I'm just used to saying D5K. If Devastator reload is not good you could just have the normal old school reload and have the silencer be equipped off screen.
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 PostPosted: Sat Nov 01, 2014 1:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

I was just wondering, in a level like Archives, where you begin unarmed in the interrogation room, how exactly would you have a supressor ready for use when you pick up the PP7 from the table? The guards managed to frisk everything else off of Bond (except for his innocent looking watch). So, where'd the silencer come from? I hope he wasn't hiding it where I'm thinking he was... Confused

Same sort of thing with multiplayer. You pick up a PP7 or D5K, but already are in possession of a supressor for them both? You die and lose everything, yet keep hold of the silencers? And since it remembers the last function used, you could equip it silenced - before seeing your character physically attach it. More of a realism issue than anything else, I suppose.

If you could control whether or not you could use a secondary function by an action block, than I suppose you could disable secondary mode if you don't already have (or have located in level) a supressor. But this sounds incredibly unlikely. While the concept is cool, I'm starting to side against it.
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 PostPosted: Sat Nov 01, 2014 2:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

Well perhaps you would pick the silencer the same time you get the weapon. I get the reasoning. I was only saying which animations could have been used. Whether or not your able to choose silencer at will or not does not matter to me. I'm just glad to see the GE weapons reloading with full animation.
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 PostPosted: Sat Nov 01, 2014 3:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

hmm, yes, the scilencer would need to be already attached (or a seperate pickup but this causes a lot more problems, though interestingly it already is a seperate model)
Then theres the problem of the commandant in bunker wielding an unsurpressed PPK and when he drops it a scilencer suddenly attaches itself.

"Well perhaps you would pick the silencer the same time you get the weapon."
well... this IS what all other games I know of assume and dont show.
The commandant could have had it in his pocket.
In MP it would also be assumed you picked it up with the gun.
The remembering of secondary is a sticky bit though, and once again other games ignore it.


hmm...

...Also, if the animation was to drop out of sight and then return then we might as well stick with 2 seperate guns... The idea of Scilenced Secondary is really purly for the love of animation and for the freedom to do it on and off at the beginning of each level where the PPK/MP5 are used.

That said these problems could be solved... (well, unlless we use the assumtion method)

How about this...

Keep Scilenced/Normal seperate to save both unnessesary ordering and pickup errors,
Assign both versions at the beginning of the level to allow the choosing by the player (Accuriacy v Noise)
Once animations are editable, assign the 'attach' animation as part of the weapon change.

Does this solve all the problems?
- Pickups (MP and SP) - Solved?
- Animation Visibility retention - N/A
- Ordering - Solved
- Per-weapon Sats (Oh, wait, secondary already has seperate stats, hehe this wasnt a problem)

Or do we still have errors?

Trev
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 PostPosted: Sat Nov 01, 2014 4:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

Well, I still don't really like the idea of picking up a gun, which clearly has no attached silencer (or one nearby), and receiving one magically. It will even say, when you pick up the weapon, the normal name. Yet, if you had the secondary function selected the previous time that gun ID was equipped, you will pull out one with a supressor. Yes, you could have done that off screen, but it kinda defeats the purpose of seeing the animation in the first place. And besides, I'm not even sure Sims would know or care to use these guns in secondary mode.

Oh, and let's not forget... your third-person model. Even if you attached a silencer in first-person, the weapon you hold in your hand as seen by another player will not change. One more reason this really doesn't need to be done.
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 PostPosted: Sat Nov 01, 2014 10:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

Progress on setting up GE weapons to use PD animations has been going well. There should only be about eight left now. Hopefully they'll go smoothly enough, though some probably won't look quite as good with their chosen animation as-is. Hand too far forward, clip smaller than original, etc. We may have to accept some for what they are, until we can customize positions of parts in the future. Let's just be thankful that PD has pretty much everything we already need to get our beloved GE firearms up and running. Razz

I checked out TWINE a bit earlier today. Was surprised that they actually do update the prop gun to match the first-person model. Unfortunately, I don't think this is possible in GE/PD (well, without major hacking). The prop model is assigned to weapon ID, and won't change depending on the function. Otherwise, Rare could have fixed which way you hold a knife (by handle or by blade) in third-person view.

TWINE's main use of secondary function was to change the firing rate of the weapon. It usually mixed things up by either auto, burst or single. I suppose we could do the same, although that's already kind of supported. With a burst weapon, you can fire a single shot by holding the aim button. And if you just hold the trigger down, you fire continuously. So, it's kind of covered in the game as it is.
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