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GoldenEye Setup Editor V3 and 8 Meg GoldenEye Release!
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Trevor
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Location: UK, Friockheim OS:Win11-Dev PerfectGold:Latest

 PostPosted: Sun Aug 09, 2015 2:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

To achive pixelated textures Turn the Filter flag to Point Sample (No Bi-Linear Filter)
Im not sure how this would look mip-mapped, but each mip-mp wont be filtered either.
If you dissable mip-mapping (Texture LOD = None) too then an effect called moiring would occur at the point the render size becomes less than the texture (eg. a small cube far away)

You could try both as they are all available in there.

That mosaque is looking nice by the way, and is the perfect use for point sampling.

Point sample should almost never be used otherwise.

Trev


It should be noted that any entry above listed as "Not Set" will use the previously set value.

Example:
When the game starts all values are set to something.

First triangle rendered changes say Texture Filter to Point.

Next triangle will continue to use point untill Texture Filter is specifically returned to Bi-Linear.

You Should NOT set parameters for every triangle as the GBI count will escelate.
PerfectGold tries to group triangles with shared attributes to save GBI, Texture Thrashing and Vtx Cache thrashing, however, it still relies hevilly on you the designer to make hard choices.
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Sogun
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 PostPosted: Sun Aug 09, 2015 7:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

Thanks, Trevor.

I already tried that but it didn't work. I thought I was missing something, so that's why I asked.

I tried again and noticed that the Editor doesn't keep the special texture filter modes after you export rooms. Maybe it's something SubDrag has to fix.

What I did was load my custom rom in the 21990 menu, select the level, click on "Edit Solo Level in Visual" (I was testing my 1P Kakariko), do the changes to a triangle, then click on "Import Solo Level from Visual + rooms", and finally Write the new ROM.
It turns out that if I reload the new rom in the 21990 and edit the level in Visual Editor, texture filter is back to Bilinear Interpolation.


I wonder if making a map where textures have no filters and no mipmaps would make things go smoother.
I read somewhere that the N64 takes twice the time to render a textured triangle than a non-textured one. That would explain why a lot of games use shaded tris instead of textures for the main characters and the enemies.
 
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SubDrag
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 PostPosted: Sun Aug 09, 2015 7:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

It worked on my test, can you send me something and exact instructions/pics on how to recreate it.
 
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SATURN_81
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 PostPosted: Fri Aug 21, 2015 4:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

english:

Hello, I wonder if anyone can help me in little doubt that I have:

my idea is to insert some of the items available on the track Acient Lake or any other song also okay, I'm not doing correctly and just want to do something simple:

what I do is find the right button and select Insert primary object 00FA that is what looks like a "zipper" (not as it is called to it or what its technical name in the editor). What is the difference between primary and secundary object object?

which is the correct way to insert an object in a level?

the problem is that if I give "Inject project into Rom" I get the following message:

Must have one entry in levelmacros.inifile.

by the way I am using this version of the game that the editor detects me as the correct version:

Diddy Kong Racing (U) (M2) (V1.0) [!]

Thank you.

Spanish:

hola ,me gustaria saber si alguien me puede ayudar en una pequeña duda que tengo:

mi idea es insertar algunos de los objetos disponibles en la pista Acient Lake o cualquier otra pista tambien vale, no se lo estoy haciendo de forma correcta y solo quiero hacer algo sencillo:

lo que hago es con el boton secundario buscar Insert primary object y seleccione 00FA por que es lo que se parece a un "zipper" ( no se como se le llama a eso o cual es su nombre tecnico dentro del editor ). ¿cual es la diferencia entre primary object y secundary object?

cual es la forma correcta para insertar un objeto dentro de un nivel?

el problema es que si le doy a "Inject project into Rom" me aparece el siguiente mensaje:

Must have one entry in levelmacros.inifile.

por cierto estoy usando esta version del juego que el editor me detecta como la version correcta:

Diddy Kong Racing (U) (M2) (V1.0) [!]

gracias.
 
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SubDrag
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 PostPosted: Fri Aug 21, 2015 4:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

Set your Quick ROM in preferences, then press F7 to inject your level to that rom, + rom to filename.

So here is the difference between primary and secondary:
Primary - Used in solo only (bananas, etc)
Secondary - Used in multi and solo

So stuff like start points are in secondary, and trees
 
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Trevor
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 PostPosted: Fri Aug 21, 2015 5:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

Oh, sorry Sogun, I didnt even see the reply till today... odd... anyway, Sub replied so hopefully it can be worked out.

On a related subject, the City Sky Scrapers in Defection are Point Sampled.
They are also Mip-Mapped apparently as they perform Tri-Linear Filtering between mip-map Levels on the first pass (Yup, the Sky Scrapers are still 2 Cycle, so not really saving anything here)


The reason for Untextured being suposidly 2x faster is for the simple reason of the following.

Fill/Copy (4 16bit texels or 2 32bit texels per cycle)
    Fill pixles with solid colour or BG Texture (No Filters)

1 Cycle (Each pixel takes at least 1 cycle of CPU, the pipeline is often stalled, pending memory access for read or write cycles)
    Untextured
    *Untextured + FOG
    Textured No Filter
    Textured Bi-Linear Filter
    *Textured + Fog
    Textures Mip-Map (Bands are shown at Level Transition)
    Semi-Transparent Triangles

    *No AA

2 Cycle (each pixle takes at least 2 cycles of CPU)
    1Cycle +
      Mip-Map Tri-Linear Filtering (Removes Bands on Levels)
      FOG with AA


Trev
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SATURN_81
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 PostPosted: Fri Aug 21, 2015 7:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

english:

Thanks SubDrag:

I did what you told me and it worked. Now my problem is that when I go into the level, appear just outside level, my character is the remaining characters into one another or merged, and we are floating in the air unable to move in any direction or any vehicle.

Mickey did the same and only start outside of the level, I have grasped a character who acts as Lakitu, and just when the race starts me loose, I fall into the void and the race is finished with 0 points.

can you tell me the steps you would follow to put a single object at a level to check if I'm missing something?

Spanish:

gracias SubDrag:

hice lo que me dijiste y funciono. ahora mi problema es que cuando voy a entrar en el nivel, aparezco justo a las afueras del nivel, mi personaje esta con el resto de los caracteres uno dentro de otro o fusionado, y todos estamos flotando en el aire sin poder avanzar en ninguna direccion ni con ningun vehiculo.

en mickey hice lo mismo y solamente comienzo a las afueras del nivel, me tiene agarrado un personaje que hace las veces de Lakitu, y justo cuando comienza la carrera me suelta, caigo al vacio y se termina la carrera con 0 puntos.

puede decirme los pasos que usted seguiria para poner un objeto simple en un nivel, para comprobar si estoy pasando algo por alto?
 
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SubDrag
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 PostPosted: Fri Aug 21, 2015 7:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

Did you start a new level? The easiest way is create a prefab of the 8 start point racers, and then insert into your new level. But if not, in DKR, insert a start point, that's you, then insert 7 more. Then go into object editor, and change the start player # from 1-7 of the others. Now everyone should start ok.

The best way to make a level though, is open an existing primary/setup, then do Tools->Make Level Barebones, then it maintains starts, and checkpoints, and you can just add the rest.

Oh and only DKR uses primary and secondary.
 
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Sogun
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 PostPosted: Fri Aug 21, 2015 12:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

Hi Trevor,

It's working now. I had an issue with a room with no points (probably used to add new geometry to an existing room and then forgot to get rid of it) that prevented the changes to be saved. Silly mistake by my part. :S

http://s1185.photobucket.com/user/Sogunesp/media/GE_Pointsample_zpsddysqrls.jpg.html

I have thought of more uses for the point sample filtering, like for more detailed walls and floors:
http://thumbs.dreamstime.com/x/pared-de-ladrillos-21648747.jpg
http://thumbs.dreamstime.com/z/tejas-de-la-terracota-51415584.jpg

I'm not sure how point sample would behave with detailed textures, so I guess the best option is using a primary triangle with the base greyscaled texture and a top-flag seconday triangle with the color dots and the point sample filtering in it.

-------------------------

So if I understand about your 1-cycle and 2-cycle explanation...
If we use only 1-cycle triangles would framerate improve greatly? like twice as smooth? hehe
I can try that for some of my multiplayer levels. What type do you think would look better (for levels with and without fog)?
 
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SubDrag
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 PostPosted: Fri Aug 21, 2015 12:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

Oh just a warning - untextured doesn't really work great in GoldenEye. I can't remember the exact reason why (Zoinkity can fill it in), it's something about bulletholes not showing up. It's fixed in PD.
 
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zoinkity
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 PostPosted: Fri Aug 21, 2015 1:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

Bullethole types and sounds are drawn from the image collided with. Pretty simple lookup by pointer in the loaded (facemapper) image table, pulling index, then looks up sound and texture set.

If the texture has no image pretty sure it just fails out, but if it has an embedded image it will try to look it up and (usually) crash on bad pointers.
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Trevor
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 PostPosted: Sat Aug 22, 2015 3:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

Yeah, we tried untextured stuff in GF, it didnt really work since the bullet thing.
Also, your performace will vary.
While you would expect 1cycle to be 2x faster than 2cycle it is not, well, not in practice.

If you had a triangle that filled the whole screen then yes, in principal 1cycle would complete 2x quicker than 2cycle.
However if it filled the screen, you may as wel have used the fill command and done it 4x quicker.

The actual quote is (concantinated):
Quote:
Reaching peak bandwidth is difficult. The framebuffer memory is organized in row order. In small triangles, it is rare to have long horizontal runs of pixels on a single scanline. In these cases, the pipeline is often stalled, pending memory access for read or write cycles. (...due to the memory latency and buffering overhead...)
...
Keep in mind that these peak numbers are typically realized on large rectangle primitives. Triangles have variable short and long spans and these numbers degrade rapidly.




As for the point sample, wow is it uggly... hahaha

However I have just thought of interesting ideas, much along the same lines as yourself.

Since Detail Textures are broken in GE (Zoink says they are not, but we have tried a few times, each time failing with a mess that looks like coloured noise/static, and no, we used a regular looking texture to test this, not noise hahaha) you can do exactly what you are saying, overlay a detail texture over a base texture. to achive great effects. Also what you suggest by placing a tile texture down, then overlaying it with mosaque colours is awsome. The problem is the tri count. at least detail was almost free (part of the mip-map system)


Oh, I would NOT use point sampling on bricks... they look god awfull, even at 64x64.
You could use either
a greyscale brick texture + coloured overlay for whole wall
OR
A coloured brick texture spanning say 8 or 16 bricks (normally 4 is minimum) and overlay a detailed greyscale texture (we have done similar somewhere in GF but Ill not say where)

It would be awsome to have a correct detail working though.
The only Detail that works in GE is the Surface trees.
Depot used detail, but its broken too.

... Just a thought... maybe we have always tried to overload TMEM in our tests? Also I read that CI textures cannot mix with RGB/I types... Maybe we have mixed types wrongly?
Oh, wait, we did get the little cross and copy icons to act as detail on the white tile from facility...
If Im not mistaken, Tile is I 4/0 Type and Copy is RGBA32.

Trev
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 PostPosted: Tue Aug 25, 2015 9:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

Preview of some of the DKR track ports to GE/PD...



Levels are Jungle Falls and Icicle Pyramid. I also have Ancient Lake in progress, but need to sort out some of the texture drawing.
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mistamontiel
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 PostPosted: Tue Aug 25, 2015 10:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

That .. that is drool-tastic
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Kerr Avon
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 PostPosted: Wed Aug 26, 2015 3:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

They look great! Please make sure they end up Goldeneye X, so us lonely players can play them against bots. And please don't remove existing Goldeneye X levels to fit these in, just make the rom 64MB instead of 32MB, if that's possible.

BTW, as used as I am to modern PC game sizes, it feels strange using terms like 32MB and 64MB to refer to full games! It's amazing how much could be squeezed into cartridge space by clever design and coding!
 
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