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Black decals on custom map
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AL64inthedark
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 PostPosted: Sun Jan 17, 2016 11:52 am    Post subject: Black decals on custom map Reply with quote Back to top

So I just imported a room from my early new map to check scales, and every decals (blood, impacts etc...) are black. Is it a known issue caused by something, like for example I didn't set sound and type for every new texture I've added ?
It still does that on every surface, even those textured with original from PD...
It scares me a bit to continue working on it without knowing.
Note: Decals are fine when playing on an original map.

 
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SubDrag
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 PostPosted: Sun Jan 17, 2016 4:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

Did you by any chance do an advanced displaylist? I wonder if somehow didn't end properly, maybe editor bug. What did you use?
 
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AL64inthedark
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 PostPosted: Sun Jan 17, 2016 5:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

Well I'm checking and...For all opaque textures, it's set to trilerp and normaltexture triangle alpha2, which seem default.

Somehow, the hint says it's another one by default if you compare.



It gave strange properties to those windows I just clicked envmap for...and it has choose "untextured triangles" combiner settings. (The car is in the background, not an object.
Could it be related to the other textures of the car... I tought it was a good idea to resize most of them to 1x32 pixels, which is displayed correctly on console but not on emulators. (I imported them from GE to PD).




Well since it is not a common issue, I better start again and we'll see that I did a mistake somewhere probably Very Happy

I had a crash after leaving the editor open for a few days (yes...) and rom it injected project on didn't work. So I loaded project again and has sticked with it since. I'm not far thought, as you could see. It was just a fast check and is probably a mistake from me somewhere.
I double checked and I'm trying again now with this project...

EDIT: Ok so it still does black decals. I'm wondering if one of those car texture cause it. For example the wheels made the game crash (somehow, when imported in the editor it recognised it as an IA texture).


Last edited by AL64inthedark on Sun Jan 17, 2016 6:28 pm; edited 3 times in total
 
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 PostPosted: Sun Jan 17, 2016 5:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

Can you send me bgfile of one not working. May be advanced mode not cleaning up something at end.
 
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AL64inthedark
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 PostPosted: Sun Jan 17, 2016 7:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

Oh wait now that I think about it. On console, the secondary room include some part of the vehicules (wheels and front light) that appear black.
It may be those.

But there's nothing funky to me with their settings...
 
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 PostPosted: Mon Jan 18, 2016 5:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

That pictures too blurry, prefer if you can send me bgfile, it's easier to recreate and fix. I think editor advanced not cleaning up something. Just pm me a link if can, so private.
 
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AL64inthedark
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 PostPosted: Mon Jan 18, 2016 8:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

Sorry for that picture. I've send you a pm here.
 
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Trevor
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 PostPosted: Mon Jan 18, 2016 9:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

hehe, I notice your using my TMEME calculator Smile
How are you getting on with it?


The screenshot showing the advanced tooltip does not help as the tooltip blocks all the settings.

While TRILERP and NormalTexture2 are indeed default, you should not have HAD to select them?
What you have to consider is that by specifying these settings they are explicitly written out in the DList. This adds extra commands to the DList that are unnnessesary.

A genuine use of the commands is to change from default, i.e. blending colour with Primitive colour or something.


The EnvMap combiner is odd... It should not be untextured (though this will not crash game, it simply wont use the currently loaded texture)
EnvMap should be TRILERP and NormalTexture2 just as normal.

If you wanted tinted windows you can change the combiner to add colour to the Environment Register and then set CC2 to (Combined-0)*Environment+0
This will tint the glass to whatever colour you specifed in the Environment register.


Hopefully Sub can find the error and post.

Trev
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Wreck
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 PostPosted: Mon Jan 18, 2016 10:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

You could always port the car from GE and use it as a prop, rather than making it part of the background. It may not be the issue here, but an option to consider. The model editor should be able to autoport a lot of different objects from GE to PD. That way, it could also be blown up during the mission.
 
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AL64inthedark
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 PostPosted: Mon Jan 18, 2016 1:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

Trevor wrote:
hehe, I notice your using my TMEME calculator Smile
How are you getting on with it?

Haha, I would lie if I said I understood everything already when we talk about texture cache.
I still have trouble figuring things out, but I'm working on it. This is really hard to figure when you don't have a clue about this kind of stuff, but I'm getting better day after day.
I have to think about other ways to texture my levels. That ground texture for example looks fine to me, I like the colors of it. But it is 64x32 8CI, so as you may imagine, it flickers a few meters away.
That's why I used your TMEME calucator to look for new ways to display something close, while keeping the color aspect of the current texture.
It will prove to be a great assisting tool in the future I think. Smile

Quote:


The screenshot showing the advanced tooltip does not help as the tooltip blocks all the settings.

It was to shown the difference between the settings choosed by editor and what is said to be default in hint.
That was the setting it gave if I uncheck advanced, and click it again.

Quote:
While TRILERP and NormalTexture2 are indeed default, you should not have HAD to select them?
What you have to consider is that by specifying these settings they are explicitly written out in the DList. This adds extra commands to the DList that are unnnessesary.

It seem to me that advanced is automatically selected for every texture when I imported my map, but not 100% sure now.

Quote:
If you wanted tinted windows you can change the combiner to add colour to the Environment Register and then set CC2 to (Combined-0)*Environment+0
This will tint the glass to whatever colour you specifed in the Environment register.

Thanks for infos ! That's what I wanted for now. I can't wait to play with envmaps a bit in the next days, and try differents colors (I want some turquoise like windows inside the building).

@Wreck: Yeah you're right. That's somehow what I planned later, but I'm trying to add some basic interior to it, and see how it runs. It is 217 polys, I've made it simple, so it is still less than the 280 polys of the police car from PD. Yeah it lacks a wheel...for now. I just sticked with textures found quickly from the game at the moment, besides the dashboard. WIP.
And yes, no backseats too, because that would have cost 4 polygons lol

I've wonder if you can create new models of glass object, so they're different shaped than square, to include them as car windows, make them destructible, and add them to the car. Seems I would only need a triangle shaped glass object.
 
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 PostPosted: Mon Jan 18, 2016 2:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

Sent you a pm, but if you can send ROM with level injected, and has advanced mode problem, since I don't have textures, need that too.
 
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 PostPosted: Tue Jan 19, 2016 3:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

[quote=AL64inthedark]I like the colors of it. But it is 64x32 8CI, so as you may imagine, it flickers a few meters away.
That's why I used your TMEME calucator to look for new ways to display something close, while keeping the color aspect of the current texture.
It will prove to be a great assisting tool in the future I think.
[/quote]

Unfortunetly you have little choice...
As it is a repeating texture, Wraps happen on power of 2 boundries.
As you texture is 8bit and you need mip-mapping you will have to shrink it to 32x32 or 64x16.
Looking at the texture I see no reason not to move it to 4Bit Ci. that should retain the red and blue smudges in the grey/black tones while enabling the use of the higher res texture.

Alternativly you could try 64x32x4 and a 16x16 detail texture. This will give the base texture up close the impression of being 128x64.

Id still love to see if loading th pallet into slot 15 (4bit ci only) would allow overloading the texture to allow 64x64 with detail and 1 mip-map.

Trev
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AL64inthedark
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 PostPosted: Tue Jan 19, 2016 4:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

I'm confident there's lot of possibilities, with details, or maybe even cheap transparent texture to do the "detail" or things like that.
But this is advanced to me at that point.
Or maybe another textures with only blues could do it in 4bit. The yellow was unwanted after all. ^^

I have to say I tend to avoid 4bit textures (not always !)... It's more than often obvious it lacks colors. Sometimes the filtering helps hide it, especially on gradients but I realised the first time I played perfect dark that "textures of characters were dithered or something, I thought".

That's the main reason I think I'll mod Goldeneye X later. Because it has lots of 8bits textures to replace, while so very few on PD, since there's close to no place to add textures at the end of PD's rom. But I would have to retransfer models& heads from PD since they're better....Oh god lol.



64x64X4 is even worst, goodbye yellow Very Happy

I would rather go greyscale than 4 bit for that one ^^. It is somehow vibrant in 8bit with the blue and yellow, it make it realist. BUT I have to try on console just to be sure.

So far, I'm more biased for 32x32 8CI. I'm planning to try to add some cracks decals on it, here and there, with an IA texture to break the repetitive look. I'm dreaming it could look good and it could compensate for lack of resolution...
Right now I'm busy modeling a head for a friend, so the cracks will have to wait a little bit. I'm doing so many things at the same time. Blame the editor for all its possibilities, and Rare team back then. Very Happy
 
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 PostPosted: Tue Jan 19, 2016 8:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

OK I took a look.

The untextured is causing the main issues like bulletholes I think. It should not have a texture assigned, should be FFFF texture if untextured. I also think Trevor said needs be one cycle, maybe more settings? I just think its a mistake, not really supposed to be advanced no texture.

https://gyazo.com/0346b5f2a7dbf52f8d3cf92c4091a39b

Also another big issue is all TopFlag and Transparent must be secondary. A lot is not and causing issues.
 
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Trevor
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 PostPosted: Tue Jan 19, 2016 12:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

Yes, Untextured should be 1 Cycle, although no bad things happen in 2 cycle, just waist of a cycle thats all.

Untextured can have 2 options.

1. Set Texture to FFFF and PG sets combiner and 1 cycle automatically.

2. If you have a Texture thats used over a surface and have an untextured segment in the middle - Simply set the combiner to (0-0)*0+Shade and set to 1 cycle.

This will avoid unloading and then reloading the same texture. Instead the texture will remain loaded in TMEM and simply not be used.

If you use lots of seperate textures you will not be able to know where in the DList the untextured segments lie. That said... actually, Option 2 is actually the most efficieant in ALL cases, so in fact, If you are going Advanced, then use Option 2.
If you want to keep things simple, use the legacy Option 1.


Just to clarify, Option 2 - Only setting the combiner and cycle type - is the best in all cases, there is no need to switch TMEM textures to nothing, even if the next texture after is different, just do the 1 switch rather than 3.
A > B rather than A > Nothing > B

Trev
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