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A project involving overclocked 60fps GoldenEye. Help wanted
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GE MASTER
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 PostPosted: Thu Mar 17, 2016 9:55 am    Post subject: A project involving overclocked 60fps GoldenEye. Help wanted Reply with quote Back to top

Hello everyone. I'm going to be totally honest here. I have been recently transferring some old VHS GoldenEye footage onto DVDs. Some of this footage was tournament footage and a lot was from the new custom levels, settings on emulators.

One thing occurred to me. From a competitive perspective, I don't think GoldenEye had a fair shake. I do still believe in the game 100% on the merits of the gameplay and head-to-head nature of multiplayer.

This brings me to my "ask". This inquiry is around the 60FPS, overclocked version of the game. I must confess that I'm struggling a bit to find my old settings etc that would play it well. I could use a refresher! However, I do believe that 60FPS is attainable in multiplayer and this is a key.

But here is the crunch of it. Those who have played the OC version, would there be an agreement about the weapon rate of fire needing an adjustment/tweaking? One person who commented on the OC version made this comment:

"Emulator uses counter-flag 1 to get games to run at 60fps, this breaks some game logic such as the Focus Pill effect and makes all the guns fire at a faster rate"

Would people agree with that? I was testing out Complex and the movement around the level seemed like turbo mode. I confess it's been a while however.

So back to the "ask". Is there anyone who is interested in tweaking the OC version so that the rate of fire and other nuances can be more authentic to the original console version? I did also read somewhere that when they did PD on Xbox (or something along those lines) that they needed to adjust some of the rates of fire. Perhaps a different game, but that in real terms, teams did adjust a game when it was updated to 60FPS.

So perhaps this would be a custom ROM that would have the adjusted values built into it. I can help with collecting data on rates of fire or movement speed. It's a one-step-at-a-time idea. Just tossing this out there. I think we can accomplish something with this. There are no true head-to-head shooters. There aren't games where the community can adjust or add gameplay tweaks/layouts quite like you guys managed with GoldenEye.

If we could discuess here, I would greatly appreciate it. Thanks guys for keeping the community going.
 
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 PostPosted: Thu Mar 17, 2016 2:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

I'm not absolutely certain on this because I haven't played with it, but I think simply doubling the value in the "time between shots" in the 21990 table for each automatic weapon would fix the problem you are describing. This would be a simple rom tweak.

It defaults to 300ms for slower guns such as the Klobb and KF7 and 200ms for faster ones such as the RC-P90 and the assault rifle. In theory, increasing those numbers to 600 and 400 should work because yes, setting the counter factor from 2 to 1 in the rom settings does seem to double firing speeds.
 
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 PostPosted: Thu Mar 17, 2016 3:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

I play GoldenEye on a modified version of 1964, which lets the game play at 60 FPS, and yes, the fire rates are pretty fast. The effect itself is noticable on the console as well, firing feels very different when you're shooting toward the sky as opposed to shooting in a big room with lots of guards.

I haven't really noticed much difference in Perfect Dark, though the focus pill doesn't work for me either. It's GoldenEye that's the most noticable, I'd say it's at least twice as fast as the average console fire rate, though that's just an estimate.
 
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 PostPosted: Thu Mar 17, 2016 3:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

If anyone playing or has played the 60FPS version of GE, please list any oddities or unusual gameplay that results. The rate of fire issue wasn't something that I was thinking of until recently. I do wonder about door timings and movement speed also.

I can assemble a few elements from the game and chart some timings. Nothing more than a stop watch. I was thinking to just empty a clip for example, chart the time. Then I can run those same timing tests on the 60FPS version on my PC. However, I'm still dealing with emu issues.

Then again, if as you say bmw, it may just be a matter of halving values and that will take care of it.
 
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 PostPosted: Thu Mar 17, 2016 3:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

The firing rate on the console for ge would vary depending on how taxing the rendering scene is. When they were working on the xbox archive version they modified the guns to have a lower rate of fire as the hardware was powerful enough to constantly run at 60fps. When you use an overclocked emulation such as 1964 OC or this there are differences with the delta time calculations. When there is a higher frame rate, collisions will be 'calculated' more times per second. This means tricks like this could not be done on an 60fps emulator.
Quote:
If anyone playing or has played the 60FPS version of GE, please list any oddities or unusual gameplay that results.

I've been using the emulator for quite a while, this is what I've noticed. Gun firing speed (faster), collisions tested per second (warp tricks not possible), guard firing speed (ge/pd is harder at 60fps), loading times for weapons/stages, time based effects for pd are broken. Player movement is not changed on the 60fps emulator. Halving the firing rate would be more accurate to the console performance (like what rare did for the arcade version).
 
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 PostPosted: Thu Mar 17, 2016 4:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

Thanks for the additional insight. Brilliant minds (excluding myself) here no doubt.

@pavarini, have you been playing much GE on the 60FPS emulation? I see you mention load times on weapons. That is referring to respawning of objects on a level?

I think my plan right now is to make a list of possible items that need a comparison. Because I'm looking at multiplayer, this is what I will be listing and reporting.
 
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 PostPosted: Thu Mar 17, 2016 4:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

Quote:
That is referring to respawning of objects on a level?

No I was referring to the time it takes to load the new weapon when switching guns. Changing your weapon causes the console to load which pauses the game for a half second. With the emulator this pause is non-existent. It has no effect on the gameplay.
 
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 PostPosted: Fri Mar 18, 2016 2:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

As far as I understand the consol, Gameplay should be a different, Higher Priority thread to graphics.
This means that while graphics are aloud to lag behind the current frame to be rendered later, gameplay will continue (timers, movement etc)

Sound is also High priority to avoid pops and crackles.

It all depends exactly on what the 60fps emu hack is doing and how GE is aloud to interpret it.

If for example it overclocks the RCP to 2x when a frame takes 2 frames to complete (30fps) then audio will also be faster since its done through the RCP.
If it overclocks the CPU then nothing would change since the bottleneck is in the RCPs RDP Fillrate.

If its really smart it would simply mark the GBI commands as complete in both RSP and RDP meaning graphics took 0 time but ABI commands still take time and have the RCP clock for timings.

In the end, im not sure, I havnt tried it.

60fps is just a figure, movies are 24 and old TV's can only do 30 anyway (2 interlaced 1/2 frames at 60 = 1 frame at 30).

Trev
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 PostPosted: Sat Mar 19, 2016 8:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

I've done a variety of tests involving console vs. 60FPS emulation.

Key findings:

- door timings are not changed.
- mine timings and explosion effects are not changed.
- distance travelled by a rocket is not changed.
- rates of fire are changed.

So the time to empty a clip is quite significant from my findings. I don't see it quite as being split in half.

Movement was interesting to me. I'm not 100% certain, but from my data, movement speeds are largely the same. I saw two different times using 2 different controllers (3 actually) on console. The PC keyboard on the emulator was showing slightly faster speeds, but marginal. I would have to put the USB adapter on PC to really know for sure.
 
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 PostPosted: Sat Mar 19, 2016 10:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

I actually thought the opposite for switching weapons. I notice more of a delay, or short pause, on emulators - especially when the weapon model has been modified and the textures aren't listed in the header. I don't really feel this on console as much. Maybe it depends on the emulator, as I haven't used the 60fps versions as much.
 
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 PostPosted: Sat Mar 19, 2016 11:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

Another thing I forgot to mention that I notice on 60 FPS emulators is that sometimes when you destroy objects that are supposed to explode, they don't explode. I remember it happening on the console as well, but rarely. With 60 FPS it seems more likely, though it still isn't very common.
 
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 PostPosted: Sun Mar 20, 2016 9:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

I've done some more extensive testing on this.

Using the Dostovei, I did one test just holding down Z to see how long to empty the clip. I also did a Dostovei test where I repeatedly pressed Z to see how fast I could empty a clip. In both these test, I would say no difference between console and 60FPS GoldenEye.

I did more testing of timings like glass and canister regeneration and found that these were unchanged on the 60FPS GoldenEye.

Movement is a bit more of a head scratcher. I did a speed run test in Egyptian, across the main floor to the point where you pick up the armor. That pick up is the finish line as it were. The results? C button movement on console was NOT faster than the analogue movement. However, both atomic controllers I tested ran this SLOWER than the PC and the Red N64 controller on console. The atomic controllers seemed to run slower, period. Although it may seem faster on 60FPS, perhaps that's just an illusion from the fact that things are smoother.

So at the end of these comparisons, I would conclude that rates of fire for the automatic weapons need tweaking. I'm no expert on which particular weapons may be affected by the 60FPS and if that would be a small group. I would guess at the following:

KF-7, Phantom, Klobb, RC-P90, D5K, D5K Silenced, ZMG (9mm), AR33 Assault Rifle

I don't have a clue on tackling this or if anyone can assist. I can certainly run the tests for comparison, but in terms of tweaking, I'm not sure how tedious this would be.

If I'm missing something here, please let me know. I haven't had the chance to play test the 60FPS to any great extent. I will need to do that and will check the "duds" factor and lack of exploding canisters to see if this is an issue. I know from years past, we found a glitch in Archives multiplayer (I think we were 3, maybe 4 player) where players spawned inside of each other. This was major and made it non playable.

The end goal here is to hopefully have something that is able to stand right next to the modern day shooters. Resolution wise it can and with the 60FPS, it also can in that regard. A few things need to be ironed out. However considering that the Xbox One controller is usable for 2 player multiplayer and that it can be setup using the 2 controller style, this makes one less barrier. Any COD or Halo player can sit down and play without a hassle at all.

I'm still a believer in the competitive merits of GoldenEye. It's possible that I could start something small to begin with, but it really depends how stable the 60FPS build is. I know the PJ64 guys are a bit....fickle? Back in 2007 Zilmar talked about adding this to PJ64, and PistolGrip said it would be about 5 minutes of work. For now, 1964 build is about it, although things could change on that front in the future.
 
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 PostPosted: Sun Mar 20, 2016 9:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

When I do a bit of math or analysis (I'm definitely not smart so keep that in mind) I would be comfortable saying that the 60FPS GoldenEye automatic weapons shoot at approximately 2.5x faster. If I average all things out, it's around 2.68x faster. There is a margin of error here of course which is why 2.5x is reasonable as a starting point.
 
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 PostPosted: Sun Mar 20, 2016 10:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

GEMaster, I did a consol test with different framerates and these are my results for you.

The AK should fire at 600RPM
PerfectGold Value = 0300 ms
wait what?... 60 / 0.3 = 200RPM? Shocked thats odd value cannot be ms... anyway... Rolling Eyes

<table><tr><td>Time to complete 1 Frame</td><td>FPS</td><td>Time (s) To Fire 30rnds</td><td> Rounds Per Minute</td></tr>
<tr><td>1</td><td>60</td><td>3</td><td>600</td></tr>
<tr><td>2</td><td>30</td><td>4</td><td>455</td></tr>
<tr><td>3</td><td>20</td><td>5</td><td>360</td></tr>
<tr><td>4 </td><td>15</td><td>6</td><td>300</td></tr>
<tr><td>10</td><td>6</td><td>15</td><td>120</td></tr>
</table>

Time to complete 1 Frame | FPS | Time (s) To Fire 30rnds | Rounds Per Minute
1 60 3 600
2 30 4 455
3 20 5 360
4 15 6 300
10 6 15 120

Trev

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Last edited by Trevor on Sun Mar 20, 2016 12:47 pm; edited 1 time in total
 
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 PostPosted: Sun Mar 20, 2016 12:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

Hey Trev, sorry I have a pretty simple mind so I don't really know what you mean.

Update: I may redo the timings for the automatic weapons. I think I can get a more accurate result. I don't think there should be the range that I recorded from weapon to weapon.
 
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