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GE-X 5e Patch Released! @ 12-24-16
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Lazlo52
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 PostPosted: Wed Nov 22, 2017 5:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

SATURN_81 wrote:
I hope that what you say of unmarking the flags of "Guardia en el Lugar" may cause fewer deaf guards. You say that after doing that, the guard will act as a normal Pd guard. In this case, I prefer the guard to act as in GE. I think the difference is that in PD only the guards close to Jo's position are the ones who act in the face of noise, while in GE, both nearby and distant guards act under the noise.

On the other hand, since you talk about flags. I see it necessary to examine GE and observe each one of the guards and see which of them have flagged or deselected the flags.

...


I'm under the impression that hearing distance functions the same between both GE and Pd. The Editor default for hearing is 3E8, and that's pretty far for interiors (it was called Health for awhile). I placed guards in GE-X's Facility and was able to achieve the same levels of hearing distance as the original GE. Looking at my work again, I see I got near 3E8 a number of times. In comparison, guards in Carrington Villa all use 1F4 (half of 3E8).

Regarding flags, I don't think we can learn much from examining original GE. There only seem to be a few options there, while Pd has dozens. Unless you meant flags set through action blocks? That's actually a good idea, I should try that someday.

As for your suggestion about infinite guards, I know Pd's "Send Out Clones" is similar to, if not the same as GE's clones flag. But, I feel like Pd's clones aren't as infinite as GE's, though.


And to correct my last post, the rekneeling issue does happen in the original Pd, but there are far less places where it occurs. And Extra Pads help most of the time. Most...
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Thundera8589
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 PostPosted: Thu Nov 23, 2017 8:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

Dark Reyn wrote:
Thanks for replying Thundera,
The pleasure is all mine. Smile

Dark Reyn wrote:
Goldeneye and Perfect Dark use different systems for weapon locations.
Yes I think everyone here just about knows this.

Dark Reyn wrote:
Goldeneye had 8 weapon locations plus body armour locations.
True.

Dark Reyn wrote:
Perfect Dark has more weapon location labels (10) but there are only 6 in the weapon selection list. The locations labelled 0, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 are allocated in order from the list, then the one labelled 6 will get the first weapon again and so on. "Disabled" will skip the slot and allocate the next but "Nothing" will leave an empty location.
Yes, there are 6 weapon slots in PD and are numbered 1-6 not 0-5 (very confusing part to me). I'm confused with what you are saying with the one labeled "6". Are you talking about the weapon setup slot number 6 or the sixth location spot from the original Goldeneye game? I thought "Disabled" just added an extra location for a weapon that was selected after the disabled slot. I know what "nothing" does.

Dark Reyn wrote:
Most of the Goldeneye presets have 4 different weapons plus body armour. The exceptions are Pistols and Golden Gun because these have 3 and 5 weapons respectively. Also there are slight differences to locations for Pistols. The workaround for Pistols utilises the "Disabled" option to use weapons 0 and 1 where the others use 0 when the early weapons are being allocated for the second time around. This changes specific weapon locations for the Pistols preset only. This is also why body armour is in the penultimate rather than last weapon slot. To solve the Golden Gun issue I just used two locations for whatever the special weapon was so they could be separated for the Golden Gun.
You lost me with the with the Pistols workaround using the "Disabled" option to use weapon 0 and 1. Don't you mean weapon slots 1 and 2? Again confusing. You mean the others using slot 1 not 0. Heck Yeah it's going to change the weapon locations for the Pistols preset, It would change it completely from what it should be which was replicated to be like the original. I'm not too sure what you meant about the body armor. Are you saying the body armor gets moved to weapon slot 4 where most of the special weapon locations are for the other weapon presets? Sounds to me for the Golden Gun you put them on weapon slots 5 and 6 cause that's the only way in the game to have one golden gun location. There is no other way around it.

Dark Reyn wrote:
To turn body armour off you would just need that weapon slot to be "Nothing", rather than disabled.
Or just replace the body armor with another weapon.

Dark Reyn wrote:
Wreck and I corresponded about a year ago. Amongst other things he suggested joining the forum (which I eventually did). It may be that I hadn't managed to articulate the solution to him well enough and he thought I simply had not understood the problem.
Not to me. I think he knows more than what you think and that you're solution doesn't work or else he would've used it. Changing the Golden Gun and Pistols presets would be a mismatch to how the other weapon presets are setup. I'm not even sure how you want him to implement this solution if it's by hacking the code for the weapon locations on the maps or simply by anyone changing it from within the game itself.

Dark Reyn wrote:
I'm pretty sure I understand and that this is the only solution for the problem. It may be that I have made an error in the calculations and it won't work but I'm fairly sure it will. As far as I know it has never been tested.
Most likely and most likely. Again, how so sure you are that it will work? Can anyone test this or does it have to be a hacker to hack into the game for this solution to be tested?

Dark Reyn wrote:
Below are maps with locations labels (F_ MP Weapon _) that correspond to the presets from my previous message:

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/7e7qyt9jsegbzrt/AABtX2KjtagCm_2e-IskBOz3a
The maps here have weapon locations that are based from the original GE game not GE-X. So it doesn't really help much. If it does, do please enlighten me. I would like to know how.

I'm sorry, I don't mean to come across rude or anything it's just that this has been a very hot topic for me for a long time and I know for a fact it's impossible to get those two presets to function like they did originally.

None of the lists you made like the presets you previously posted "012345" and the "PD>GE list" doesn't make any sense at all. Trying to figure it out with those maps you gave is even more complicating. Also how do you get a number "7" on the "GE" part of the list but there is no "7" shown anywhere on those maps?

Anyway, either way I hope Wreck tries your solution out (I'm not sure how you want him to) and it works out perfectly like you pitched to him in the email.

Happy Thanksgiving Dark Reyn and welcome to the forums. Smile
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Dark Reyn
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 PostPosted: Thu Nov 23, 2017 5:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

Hi Thundera,
I fear I have failed to make it clear (again!).

Quote:
Yes, there are 6 weapon slots in PD and are numbered 1-6 not 0-5 (very confusing part to me). I'm confused with what you are saying with the one labeled "6". Are you talking about the weapon setup slot number 6 or the sixth location spot from the original Goldeneye game? I thought "Disabled" just added an extra location for a weapon that was selected after the disabled slot. I know what "nothing" does.

PD uses weapon location labels which are not visible during play but are defined during editing. As with most programming numbering they start with 0. These labels are "F_ MP Weapon _" where the underscores are the numbers 0-9. The visible part is the weapon select option that you have in-game control over.

The system means that if you select weapons or a preset that has the weapon sequence A, B, C, D, E & F then it will assign A, B, C, D, E, F, A, B, C, D to locations 0-9 respectively.

Whereas A, B, C, D, E & "Disabled" will assign A, B, C, D, E, A, B, C, D, E which means that the weapons for locations 5-9 will be quite different. The key difference here is that "Nothing" won't cause the shift. My solution only uses locations 0-6 but 7-9 are never used (although in theory could be). Weapon location "6" is just a label. If you have weapons in all the selection slots "6" is indistinguishable from "0" in-game.

Quote:
You lost me with the with the Pistols workaround using the "Disabled" option to use weapon 0 and 1. Don't you mean weapon slots 1 and 2? Again confusing. You mean the others using slot 1 not 0. Heck Yeah it's going to change the weapon locations for the Pistols preset, It would change it completely from what it should be which was replicated to be like the original.

You lost me with the with the Pistols workaround using the "Disabled" option to use weapon 0 and 1. Don't you mean weapon slots 1 and 2? Again confusing. You mean the others using slot 1 not 0. Heck Yeah it's going to change the weapon locations for the Pistols preset, It would change it completely from what it should be which was replicated to be like the original.

I'm not too sure what you meant about the body armor. Are you saying the body armor gets moved to weapon slot 4 where most of the special weapon locations are for the other weapon presets?

I suggested body armour occupy location 4 because higher numbers are not affected by the shift (unless you deliberately have lots of disabled slots) and because of the logistics and setting up the presets (hard to articulate but O've been treating this like a puzzle and like most sudokus, I can only see one workable combination).

Quote:
Sounds to me for the Golden Gun you put them on weapon slots 5 and 6 cause that's the only way in the game to have one golden gun location. There is no other way around it.

You're right that the Golden Gun must only have one location but the fact that there are fewer weapons in the higher numbered slots is simply a consequence of the fact that they are less likely to be affected by the weapons being assigned more than once (eg weapon "F" in the earlier example). There is a way around, I am suggesting we only use location 3 once on each map in a similar vein to the body armour.

Quote:
Or just replace the body armor with another weapon.

Yeah, you could do. I was imagining a "Dr No" version, that was all.

Quote:
Not to me. I think he knows more than what you think and that you're solution doesn't work or else he would've used it. Changing the Golden Gun and Pistols presets would be a mismatch to how the other weapon presets are setup. I'm not even sure how you want him to implement this solution if it's by hacking the code for the weapon locations on the maps or simply by anyone changing it from within the game itself.

Wreck clearly understands the game well I agree. Essentially it requires changing the labels on the weapon locations in the maps.

Quote:
Most likely and most likely. Again, how so sure you are that it will work? Can anyone test this or does it have to be a hacker to hack into the game for this solution to be tested?

I'm about 95% sure. I haven't yet got the skill set to make the necessary changes and test the map. It's not a hack though, just some minor tinkering with the map.

Quote:
The maps here have weapon locations that are based from the original GE game not GE-X. So it doesn't really help much. If it does, do please enlighten me. I would like to know how.

I'm sorry, I don't mean to come across rude or anything it's just that this has been a very hot topic for me for a long time and I know for a fact it's impossible to get those two presets to function like they did originally.

None of the lists you made like the presets you previously posted "012345" and the "PD>GE list" doesn't make any sense at all. Trying to figure it out with those maps you gave is even more complicating. Also how do you get a number "7" on the "GE" part of the list but there is no "7" shown anywhere on those maps?

I appreciate you taking the time to look at this stuff. These are indeed maps from Goldeneye. I put the numbers on in order to show which location label needed to go to where. The idea was to enable GE-X to have the same locations as GE. You're not coming over rude. You're right about the presets not easily aligning with GE but hence my workaround. Sorry about the presets being unclear. In that bit the "7" is just the KF7. I was just trying to use a single character to denote each weapon and I'd used "P" and "K" already (see key). It's probably better to simply ignore my bit about PD<-GE, it was just to outline how the two systems relate to one another.

Quote:
Anyway, either way I hope Wreck tries your solution out (I'm not sure how you want him to) and it works out perfectly like you pitched to him in the email.

Happy Thanksgiving Dark Reyn and welcome to the forums.
Smile

Thanks, although I'm a Brit so I didn't even know thanksgiving was today!
 
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Thundera8589
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 PostPosted: Fri Nov 24, 2017 12:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

Hey Dark Reyn,

I just noticed an error in your maps. While I was analyzing all the locations of the weapons that were under Golden Gun, you had multiple PP7 locations and forgot that the Golden Gun Preset uses the KF7 Soviet weapon. I think you may want to correct those errors in the maps and then reupload them with the corrections and linked them aon here again. The Pistols preset one is okay. And although I haven't checked them I believe the other presets are fine.

Other than that, i feel 100% behind you on this solution. I am kind of seeing what you're trying to say even though it's confusing. The fact that you now told me that this solution would be programmed in with numbers in the way you said it makes sense. It's a possibility it just might work. I feel Wreck should try it out and test and if he sees nothing major has changed between weapon sets , he should at least leave this solution in for the next patch 5F.

For me now, I think looking at the maps is helping me understand your solution more as well as your more deeper explanation about the higher numbers not being affected by the shift. I'm not quite there yet in understanding. I'm like half a circle/moon of understanding. Once I understand 100% I will be a full moon instead of half way or 1/4.

I think you explained enough where Wreck can take a look here and understand you're solution and test it out. I hope he does. I hope he implements it in the next patch. At least for us bug testers here to see if there is any differences as well. He could always go back and fix it back. However, I really think he should try it out and implement for everyone to test out. If it works well then we keep your solution.

Sorry I didn't realize you were a brit. Embarassed
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Dark Reyn
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 PostPosted: Fri Nov 24, 2017 3:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

Thundera8589 wrote:
Hey Dark Reyn,

I just noticed an error in your maps. While I was analyzing all the locations of the weapons that were under Golden Gun, you had multiple PP7 locations and forgot that the Golden Gun Preset uses the KF7 Soviet weapon. I think you may want to correct those errors in the maps and then reupload them with the corrections and linked them aon here again. The Pistols preset one is okay. And although I haven't checked them I believe the other presets are fine.


Good spot Thundera,

I've just had a quick look at the maps. I used someone else's maps, my input was adding the numbers and I had just assumed the rest was correct. You're right that whoever put them together has made a mistake with the Golden Gun weapons. I think it should be the same as lasers apart from PP7 and Golden Gun at locations 2 and 3 respectively. I think my system is still correct though, if you look at my original message and the suggested presets I think they are still correct. If I find time I will correct the maps. But it sounds like you understand how my suggested system works.

Thanks for the vote of confidence and likewise I hope Wreck tries it out, at least as a test. I, for one, would be more than happy to run a test Smile
 
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Thundera8589
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 PostPosted: Sat Nov 25, 2017 12:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

Dark Reyn wrote:
Good spot Thundera,

I've just had a quick look at the maps. I used someone else's maps, my input was adding the numbers and I had just assumed the rest was correct. You're right that whoever put them together has made a mistake with the Golden Gun weapons. I think it should be the same as lasers apart from PP7 and Golden Gun at locations 2 and 3 respectively. I think my system is still correct though, if you look at my original message and the suggested presets I think they are still correct. If I find time I will correct the maps. But it sounds like you understand how my suggested system works.

Thanks for the vote of confidence and likewise I hope Wreck tries it out, at least as a test. I, for one, would be more than happy to run a test Smile


Your welcome!

Like I said. This was hot topic for me for long time and always wanted those two presets corrected to be like the originals. For some strange reason I feel your solution is the key to fixing the problem with those two presets. As confusing as your explanations may sound, I can see how they not only are a correction for those two presets but also benefit and correct the others as well to follow suit. In the meantime, I will look at the lasers weapon locations on the current maps and compare with the Golden Gun to see how they are similar. Until then, I will be looking forward to your corrected maps when they are ready and linked here. And yes I think it would be nice of Wreck to let you test it out while he is making the changes into your solution before a release.
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 PostPosted: Sat Nov 25, 2017 5:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

Ok I've had a look at the maps, I think the numbers are still correct for my presets below but I spotted some other mistakes on the maps' weapons lists which I have corrected. I think I've done them all but may have missed a few.

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/7e7qyt9jsegbzrt/AABtX2KjtagCm_2e-IskBOz3a

From original post, presets would be as follows:
012345
DpCCB- Pistols
DK55Bp Automatics
CRSSBD Power weapons
CKssBD Sniper rifle
ZAXXBP Mines
K7XXBD Launchers/lasers/grenades
K7pGBD Golden Gun

Key:
D DD44
p PP7 (silenced)
C Cougar magnum
B Body armour
- Disabled
K Klobb
5 D5K Deutsche
R RCP-90
S Shotgun
s Sniper rifle
7 KF7 Soviet
X Launchers/lasers/grenades/mines
Z ZMG
P PP7
A AR33
G Golden Gun

The maps should read:

0
Pistols - DD44
Automatics - DD44
Power weapons - Magnum
Sniper rifle - Magnum
Mines - ZMG
Launchers/lasers/grenades - Klobb
Golden Gun - Klobb

1
Pistols - PP7 (silenced)
Automatics - Klobb
Power weapons - RCP-90
Sniper rifle - Klobb
Mines - AR33
Launchers/lasers/grenades - KF7
Golden Gun - KF7

2
Pistols - Magnum
Automatics - D5K
Power weapons - Shotgun
Sniper rifle - Sniper rifle
Mines - Mines
Launchers/lasers/grenades - Launchers/lasers/grenades
Golden Gun - PP7 (silenced)

3
As 2 except Golden Gun - Golden Gun

4
Body armour

5
Pistols - DD44 (ie as 0 because position 5 disabled)
Automatics - PP7 (silenced)
Power weapons - DD44
Sniper rifle - DD44
Mines - PP7
Launchers/lasers/grenades - DD44
Golden Gun - DD44

6 (ie as 0 apart from pistols)
Pistols - PP7 (silenced) (as position 1)
Automatics - DD44
Power weapons - Magnum
Sniper rifle - Magnum
Mines - ZMG
Launchers/lasers/grenades - Klobb
Golden Gun - Klobb

With any luck this should be accurate.
 
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Dark Reyn
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 PostPosted: Sun Nov 26, 2017 9:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

If this works then I think logical phase 2 would be to change the layout of the Current Weapon Setup screen (which would be a hack although hopefully an easy one).

Currently it looks like this:
"1:" (really slot 0 and whatever one cycles round again)
"2:" (really 1 etc)
"3:"
"4:"
"5:"
"6:"

I would suggest that it look like this:
"1, 2:" (really corresponding to slot 5)
"3, 4:" (0)
"5, 6:" (1)
"7:" (2)
"8:" (3)
"Armour/No:" (4)

This way the gun frequency is fairly represented, it remains (almost) true to the order the guns will fill (it's true if none are disabled) and it will make sense to those familiar with the Goldeneye weapon presets (they accurately correspond to the sequence they are used in GE). This, of course, may not be feasible although I suspect changing the labels would be doable.
 
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Thundera8589
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 PostPosted: Sun Nov 26, 2017 12:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

If it does work than I think this can be doable. Wreck would have to give a brief description on the patch notes on the new layout of the weapon setup screen. Detailing the reasons for the change. and what the numbers mean. Now that you put this out there it helps make the solution less confusing than keeping the layout the way it currrently is.

I already have analyzed the first 4 maps from the link using lasers, golden gun, and pistols presets only. I have checked them in-game and so far the numbers seem to match correctly.

Question. You said the weapons are labeled like this "F_MP Weapon_", right. The underscores are where the number location goes. Where does the weapon that you are giving the number to go? "FDMP Weapon1" is that how it would look for the Dostovei and what location number it uses on that specific preset?

How do you get location number 2 and 3 to represent one weapon twice? Wouldn't it number 2 have two number 2's located on the maps just like for numbers 1,4, and 5? How come the others are only shown once?

I'm sorry I'm asking so many questions. I am still a little confused. Confused
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Dark Reyn
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 PostPosted: Sun Nov 26, 2017 2:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

Thundera8589 wrote:
Question. You said the weapons are labeled like this "F_MP Weapon_", right. The underscores are where the number location goes. Where does the weapon that you are giving the number to go? "FDMP Weapon1" is that how it would look for the Dostovei and what location number it uses on that specific preset?

Sorry about the confusion here. The example you give would be "F1 MP Weapon 1". The map itself is fixed and this is part of the information of the map.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/jdwyiaa63jnsg8h/F_.jpg

When you select your weapons in Current Weapon Setup there is also a preset ("Set") option. These are the presets I'm referring to, in this example the Dostovei would have to be in position 1 (remember on screen it calls it number 2) in the Current Weapon Setup list.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/t359c2ivt2r3u0v/Weapons%20select.png

Thundera8589 wrote:
How do you get location number 2 and 3 to represent one weapon twice? Wouldn't it number 2 have two number 2's located on the maps just like for numbers 1,4, and 5? How come the others are only shown once?

I'm suggesting that in the Current Weapon Setup, the weapon selected for position 2 and 3 are the same for every preset except Golden Gun. In terms of how many of the weapon are on the map it simply comes down to how it is set up.
Dark Reyn wrote:
012345
DpCCB- Pistols
DK55Bp Automatics
CRSSBD Power weapons
CKssBD Sniper rifle
ZAXXBP Mines
K7XXBD Launchers/lasers/grenades
K7pGBD Golden Gun

Thundera8589 wrote:
I'm sorry I'm asking so many questions. I am still a little confused. Confused

That's ok. I appreciate you taking an interest although I worry that I'm not helping to clarify.
 
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Thundera8589
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 PostPosted: Mon Nov 27, 2017 8:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

Hey Dark Reyn,

Sorry I can't reply back to that rhetoric right now. I appreciate you explaining this to me. However, I feel this is important what I am about to say here. I think I may have found out what the problem is in GE-X or at least this maybe what can possibly cause problems between weapon presets in terms of them functioning identical to the original GE game.I also think this may cause potential conflicts with your solution.

Okay so far from the link you gave of the maps (I know I keep going back to the maps for references but hey they do help me alot) .Starting from The top right which is Archives then going all the way across to the right. I have examined from playing BOTH games GE007 and GE-X the first 5 maps. I'm currently using the Lasers/Launchers/Grenades presets as a reference for these analyzes. Here are how they match up with the maps you linked and the differences in-between games.

1.Archives->GE=Identical->GE-X=Identical

2.Basement->GE=Identical->GE-X=Mostly Identical
(2 new weapon locations have been added. One right in the spot where location 6 is. The other, right in the spot where location 0 is.)

3.Bunker->GE=Identical->GE-X=Identical

4.Caverns->GE=Identical->GE-X=Not Identical
(For presets Lasers/Launchers/Grenades, location 0 is not a Klobb instead it's a Dostovei. Location 5 is not a Dostovei instead it's a KF7 Soviet. Location 1 is not a KF7 Soviet instead it's a Laser/Launcher/Grenade/Golden Gun. Location 4 of the body armor on the walkway is relocated to the secret passage where the explosive barrel is. Only one body armor is relocated. Instead a Klobb is located in it's place. The other location 5 that's on the walkway remains the same with the Dostovei there. The room with both locations 1 and 2 is different in GE-X there is only one weapon there and it's the KF7 Soviet. So location 1 in that spot is the same but not in the other location 1 spot.)

5. Caves->GE=Identical->GE-X=Not Identical
(First off body armors in GE-X remain in the same spots as in GE. Location 0 is not a Klobb instead it's a KF7 Soviet. First location 1 spot near the climbing slope on the top level of the cave is not a KF7 instead it's a Dostovei. Second location 1 spot in the top level on the dead dend spot is not a KF7 Soviet either, instead it's a laser/launcher/grenade/golden gun. Location 2 is not a laser/launcher/grenade/PP7 Silenced instead it's a Klobb. Location 3 is not a laser/launcher/grenade/Golden Gun instead it's a Klobb. Location 5 beneath the body armor spot is not a Dostovei instead it's a KF7 Soviet. The other location 5 is a Dostovei. Location 6 is not a Klobb instead it's a laser/launcher/grenade/Golden Gun.)

6. Complex->GE=Identical->GE-X=Not Identical
(Location 5 on the second floor is not a DD44 Dostveo instead ut's a Klobb.Near by is location 1 which is not a KF7 Soviet but instead a Dostovei.Tehere are only two body armors as opposed to three like in the original. One of hte body armors is relocated It's relocated where that sniper spot next to staircase B on the map.The otherlocation 5 where the pillar room is remains the same with a Dostovei.Location 6 remains the same with a Klobb. Locations 2 and 3 are in the same spots only difference Golden Guns appear on both locations in GE-X.The other location 1 remains in the same spot and has the KF7 Soveit just like it should. And location 0 appears to be relocated to where near the area where the relocated body armor is and it is not a Klobb instead it's a KF7 Soviet.)

7. Egpytian->GE=Identical->GE-X=Mostly Identical
(The only real noticeable difference is one of the body armors is relocated to a spot that wasn't used in GE. Other than that the weapon locations are identical.)

8. Facility->GE=Identical->GE-X=Mostly Identical
(The body armor near the restroom was relocated into the room where weapon location 6 was in GE. Weapon location 6 is relocated to the spawn area behind location 6. And location 0 is relocated to the back hall where the green walls are. The weapons themselves are in the same spots they originally were in with the exception of some location 6,0, and one body armor being relocated.)

9. Library->GE=Identical->GE-X=Not Identical
(The "special weapons" (Golden Gun/Magnum/Laser) location is relocated.to different spots. Only in the Stack level of the map. Location 6 and location 1 are the new "special weapons" locations. there are only 2 body armor locations as opposed to 3.One body armor on the walkway on the upper stack level and the other in the basement level on it's original spot.The basement level of Library is more identical to the original in terms of the number of weapon locations. Unlike the Basement map in GE-X, the Basement level in stack is exactly like in the original GE game. However, in the Golden Gun preset, the basement level's location number 1 is a Golden Gun instead of a KF7 Soviet. The stack level location 2 is not a special weapon (Magnum/Laser/Mines) instead it's a Klobb.Location 2 is not a Special weapon instead it's a KF7 Soviet. Location 6 with the crappy weapon is not a klobb instead it's a "Special Weapon". Both location 5s are the same.Location 1 near the ramp to the basement is the same.The upper level of Stack location 2 is not a "special weapon"instead it's a klobb. Location 1 on the upper stack level is a "special weapon" instead of a KF7 Soviet.)

10. Stack->GE=Identical->GE-X=Not Identical
(Firt off both special weapon locations where 2 and 3 are located in the map have changed. Both body armor location spots have changed.Location 5 where ramp B is remains the same. Location 5 with the glass shields remain the same. Location 6 is a KF7 Soveit instead of a Klobb.Location 0 remains the same.Location 2 on the maps is not a "special weapon" location instead a KF7 Soveit js there. Location 2 on the upper level is not a "sepcial weapon" instead it's a Klobb. Location 3 on the upper level is now occupied by a body armor. Location 1 on the upper level is now a "Special Weapon" location. Location 5 where the multiple glass shield area is is no longer a Dostovei instead it's a "Special Weapon" location. Lastly, Location 5 where the two opening walls intersect is no longer a Dostovei instead it's the 2nd body armor location.)

11. Temple->GE=Identical->GE-X=Mostly Identica
(All weapons are in the same exact locations they originally were on in the original game. The only difference is a second body armor now exists in the map.)

That's all the maps I have analyzed so far. I will update and edit this post to reveal more differences in the maps in-between games and also if the maps weapon locations match up to the original GE game (whcih so far they have).

Hopefully Dark Reyn this will help you figure out any conflicting issues between the two games. Maybe this will give you a better understanding of what is going on and/or wrong in GE-X.

Update: Added in Complex map details.
Update 2: Added in Egpytian map details.
Update 3: Added in map details of Facility and Library.
Update 4: Added in the last two map details Stack and Temple.
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Last edited by Thundera8589 on Thu Nov 30, 2017 12:23 pm; edited 9 times in total
 
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Dark Reyn
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 PostPosted: Mon Nov 27, 2017 1:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

This is kind of you but unnecessary. The discrepancies are simply a result of Wreck's weapons locations and presets being a pretty good match but an imperfect solution.

If you want to test where Wreck has put which weapon location where you can either look on the Setup Editor (Visual Editor) or in-game play 2 games, one with 6 weapons of your choice and another with 5 (6th disabled).
eg:
0 = AR33, AR33
1 = Body armour, body armour
2 = Cougar, cougar
3 = DD44, DD44
4 = Grenade launcher, grenade launcher
5 = ZMG, AR33
6 = AR33, body armour
7 = Body armour, cougar
8 = Cougar, DD44
9 = DD44, Grenade launcher
(I only used 0-6 but the PD engine can and does use 0-9)
I did this for Stack (my personal favourite) and it's how I worked out the system PD (and GE-X) use for assigning weapons. Since then I have looked at the maps using the Setup Editor to see how it works. I worked out my solution with pen, paper and a lot of head scratching.

If you want to know where the original Goldeneye weapon locations are they obey the locations on the maps I linked (although they would need to be converted (see below):
Dark Reyn wrote:
PD<-GE
0 <- 2
1 <- 4/5
2 <- 6
3 <- 7
4 <- Body armour (use "Nothing" not "Disabled" if no armour)
5 <- 0/1
6 <- 3

http://goldeneye.wikia.com/wiki/GoldenEye_Weapon_Set_Editor may clarify the weapon presets (as before, my "0" is their on-screen #1)
 
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Wreck
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 PostPosted: Mon Nov 27, 2017 7:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

I just want to post something quick about the weapons in GE-X. Not all levels are an exact match between the original and the mod. There are various reasons as to why.

For one, in a level like Basement, additional weapons needed to be included so more players and Simulants can have access to them. It's never fun running around and not finding any weapons.

Another reason is arrangement. In GoldenEye, you can't dual wield in multiplayer. However, in Perfect Dark, you can. So in instances where the same weapon appears very closely to each other in GE, I altered it. This way, it takes more effort for players and Sims to collect two of the same gun, rather than getting them very quickly and becoming a nuisance in short time.

And lastly is the body armour situation. GoldenEye had these pickups built into the setup files, and they would always spawn in. PD changed this, by making them part of the weapon set. This way, players could effectively turn them off, or replace them with another item. Where and how the armour appears may have been adjusted to either space them out better, or to utilize the ammo crates that will load in should the armour be replaced by a gun.

The average is ten weapon sets per level, unless the map is large. You could consider it 2x weak, 2x fair, 2x good, 2x best, and 2x armour. Using the same basic scheme of PD, that's how all GE-X maps were handled. I honestly don't know why one incorrect gun in Pistols still bothers some people. The extra Golden Gun I can understand more, but since we don't have a Golden Gun mode, it isn't a major issue. Having two also gives players a greater chance of getting one, where only the one could be dominated by harder difficulty Sims (who go immediately for higher priority pickups).

If this suggested update does require physically altering the menu and how the weapons are assigned by the game (not just a setup issue), than I would have zero clue how to go about that. I am not even sure where to begin. And if this adjustment does not work across the board (for every weapon set), than it is no better than what we currently have - which is already accepted by the majority of players, and looks very clean in the menu.
 
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Thundera8589
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Joined: 12 Aug 2015
Posts: 351

 PostPosted: Tue Nov 28, 2017 12:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

I don't think Dark Reyn's solution requires for you to change up the menu and how the weapons are numbered. That was just his suggestion. And if I am correct, he isn't saying to change the numbers in the menu to 0-9, he is just saying that instead of it currently numbered 1-6 it be changed to the way he suggested a few posts ago. I don't think that would be too hard to change the numbers in the menu screen. It still the same amount of numbers on screen just numbered alternately.

Wreck I have faith in this solution I think this just might be it. I also think if this does work then if players want two Golden Guns on a map they can always customize the weapon set to do so. I think if you and Dark Reyn had a pm together he can help you out to fix this issue that hasn't been tackled in a long time. This approach is very reasonable and I feel 95% positive that it will work. You just need to believe and give this guys solution a shot. However, I would suggest you go through it with him while doing the weapon editing this way you can get a better understanding of this solution and test if it works. If it works, it works. If it doesn't it does. What's the harm in at least testing it out.

@Dark Reyn

Since you said it's unnecessary to post the differences where the weapons are in between games. It still does not mean I am not going to abandon doing these anaylzes. If you want you can create alternate maps for the GE-X versions of them based on the changes Wreck made. Better yet you can make GE-X versions of the maps based on your solution. I hope Wreck is cool with that though.
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The Renegadist
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Joined: 10 Feb 2016
Posts: 379
Location: Facility Vents

 PostPosted: Tue Nov 28, 2017 12:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

Good to see you back, Wreck.

Any news at all you can share, good or bad since Christmas is coming up?
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