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MIDI Envelope Question
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L. Spiro
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 PostPosted: Sat Jan 14, 2017 3:27 pm    Post subject: MIDI Envelope Question Reply with quote Back to top

Code:
ALEnvelope Envp0000 = { // Offset: 0x3B4468
           0, // attackTime
         7D0, // releaseTime
          7F, // attackVolume
          7F, // decayVolume
};

In what unit is releaseTime measured?

Code:
ALWaveTable Wave0000 = { // Offset: 0x3B4A10
         508, // base
        129A, // len
           0, // type
           0, // flags
  { // union
    Loop0000, // waveInfo.adpcmWave.loop
    Book0000, // waveInfo.adpcmWave.book
},

How is base used? “len” doesn’t seem to be a meaningful value as it matches neither the length in milliseconds nor the number of samples. Size of the audio file as it appears in the game? I’m not working with those so I can’t check.

Code:
ALADPCMloop Loop0000 = { // Offset: 0x3B4A28
        166E, // start
        2100, // end
    FFFFFFFF, // count
};

In what unit are start and end? I’ve gotten reasonable results by treating them as samples.


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SubDrag
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 PostPosted: Sun Jan 15, 2017 3:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

All times are in microseconds.

Base and Len are offset and length of the actual wave data (stored in the Tbl).

Believe you are right and loop data is in samples.
 
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L. Spiro
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 PostPosted: Mon Jan 16, 2017 7:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

I got these values from GEEdit.
I notice that the ALEnvelope structure is missing decayTime.

Luckily I have those values, but it makes me consider that these are not the most up-to-date values you’ve released?

Also, do you have the instrument tables for Perfect Dark as well?


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Wreck
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 PostPosted: Mon Jan 16, 2017 7:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

If you end up looking more into both GE and PD instruments, perhaps you can see if they did make any changes to PD's format. A few people have mentioned that the ported music in GoldenEye X sounds off, especially for certain instruments. Would be nice to sort that all out.
 
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L. Spiro
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 PostPosted: Wed Jan 18, 2017 5:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

Do you mean changes to the sample formats?
They should be identical.

My samples aren’t ripped from the games, so I might be able to spot any bad ripped samples once I get there.

Currently I am still working on putting together a GoldenEye 007 sound bank (sorry I will not be able to release it, not that it would be useful to anyone else anyway since it is for a Yamaha MONTAGE), and will move on to Perfect Dark afterwards, but again I will need to have the bank data (ALSound, ALKeyMap, ALInstrument, etc.) to fill in the gaps between what I have and what went into the final product.

Have these been ripped for Perfect Dark and where can I get them?


I will post the fruits of my labor when done, and I think this board will thoroughly enjoy the end results.


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Thundera8589
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 PostPosted: Wed Jan 18, 2017 8:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

Question. If an instrument key from GoldenEye that was ported over to Perfect Dark has missing values/data will that affect how certain instruments sound in the game?

I ask cause there is an instrument key in GE-X that it seems off from how it sounded in the original GoldenEye game. You can tell the difference when you play both. It's easier to seek it out in GE-X since it has a music track list to listen to. You can also tell by listening to the original GoldenEye tracks on youtube. Tracks like Frigate X, Silo X, Surface II. Surface II X. Cradle, Egpytian all have a certain instrument that sounds off from how it originally sounded in GoldenEye.

There is also a bass instrument that was added in GE-X later on that uses a different format from GE I believe and that bass instrument produces a vibrating amplifier type noise that you would hear if you had a loud sound system in your car.

I also may be wrong but I think even like the sound effects are a little off as when you hear the "pick up" sounds in GE-X they don't sound as loud and clear as they do in GE.

Please help out the GE-X team with the instrument sound issues that have been plaguing the mod since it's inception.
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Trevor
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 PostPosted: Thu Jan 19, 2017 2:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

I would alos like to re-itterate that you must remember that GE produces Mono sound locallity (+stereo music) while PD produces 5.1 Surround Sound.

This means that on hearing sounds as played in-game they can vary in PD with movement/direction while GE will always sound the same.

That "Loud and Clear"ness of GE may be because there is no alteration done to give the sound placement.

I have found that pickups are located in the rear channels so if you are comparing on a mono TV you will not hear them (since no rear channels)
(reason is because you are directly on top - moving forward meaning the pickup is mathematically behind you at point when sound is played)

Trev
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Thundera8589
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 PostPosted: Thu Jan 19, 2017 6:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

As I said I could be wrong on the sound effect sound samples. Still, it wouldn't hurt to have a look at them either just to be sure you know what I mean.

The instruments for the music however is definitely off as it doesn't matter in GE-X which sound mode you choose. They still are off compared to the original. Besides there isn't that much of a difference in-between games when it comes to sound. All Rare did was include dolby surround sound to the sound engine that was of Goldeneye. Everything else should be identical between both games.
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Wreck
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 PostPosted: Thu Jan 19, 2017 12:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

Thundera8589 wrote:
Everything else should be identical between both games.


Well, if everything else is any indication (setups, pads, models, animations, etc), I would not be surprised if something got changed in the audio format. Even if minor, it may be enough to affect the samples. Especially considering the Dolby Surround, and the use of other MP3 audio.


Last edited by Wreck on Thu Jan 19, 2017 12:36 pm; edited 1 time in total
 
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SubDrag
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 PostPosted: Thu Jan 19, 2017 12:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

L. Spiro wrote:
I got these values from GEEdit.
I notice that the ALEnvelope structure is missing decayTime.

Luckily I have those values, but it makes me consider that these are not the most up-to-date values you’ve released?

Also, do you have the instrument tables for Perfect Dark as well?


L. Spiro


I see decay time in the editor? Maybe you don't have the latest beta, though I don't remember changing much in a long time.

https://gyazo.com/add4931c57dac24e00539486f37e2a36
 
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L. Spiro
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 PostPosted: Thu Jan 19, 2017 1:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

Which tool is that?
I am using the files included in some release of GEEdit.
I assume that tool can display the data for Perfect Dark as well then?


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SubDrag
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 PostPosted: Thu Jan 19, 2017 1:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

Yeah, it's the same. It's in the GoldenEye Setup Editor 3.0.
 
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L. Spiro
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 PostPosted: Thu Jan 19, 2017 7:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

http://www.goldeneyevault.com/viewfile.php?id=37
I have downloaded twice and I get this error:
---------------------------
GoldenEye Setup Editor 3.0 Install Program
---------------------------
This file contains invalid data.
---------------------------
OK
---------------------------



Windows 7 Pro x64 with Microsoft Visual Studio 2008 installed.
I can’t install this.


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pavarini
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 PostPosted: Thu Jan 19, 2017 10:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

The server is flaky with large files. If it still doesn't complete I've uploaded the extracted setup files here (.7z)
 
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Trevor
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 PostPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2017 3:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

Thundera8589 wrote:
Besides there isn't that much of a difference in-between games when it comes to sound. All Rare did was include dolby surround sound to the sound engine that was of Goldeneye. Everything else should be identical between both games.


You do make it sound really simple. Razz

To go from mono to 5.1 means you need to add a layer of coding to extrapolate locality.

eg, to play mono sound you simply play the sound requested (rare did change the volume based on distance)
playsound(x, 1/distance)

but, with 5.1 you now need to account for direction.
this means 2 things,
1 the code did change
2 sounds from only 1 speaker will play at half the volume as before and sounds from the rear will be slilent in mono (Surround chanels are Left+right out-of-phase : \/\/\/ + /\/\/\ = ------)

Trev
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