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GE: Source map tours for people without Steam
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Ryani
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 PostPosted: Tue Jan 17, 2017 11:56 pm    Post subject: GE: Source map tours for people without Steam Reply with quote Back to top

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gnzcclpureo

Every one of the remixed levels (not including the classic versions that just have HD textures). I wanted a video like this for ages but just caved and downloaded Source when I got a gaming PC. Now everyone can see the awesome 'creative liberties' the GE: Source team took to mix the game's level design and the movie's aesthetics.
 
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TheMaskedMutant
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 PostPosted: Wed Jan 18, 2017 4:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

Goldeneye Source is really fantastic i just wish it had single player -_-

the best community map is IMO Funhouse by Cy
 
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Wreck
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 PostPosted: Wed Jan 18, 2017 11:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

Big thanks for making this video. I have wanted to see some walkthroughs for a while now, but everything tends to be matches. Nice to finally get a chance to pay attention to the maps, rather than the action.

Obviously these levels look great. They've done a superb job recreating them to look more high end, realistic, and full of details. However, while I understand the necessity of adding additional routes around the map, since so many more players can participate, I often found myself beyond confused. I guess it would be like waking up one day and finding your house was completely renovated, with new rooms and extra halls or stairways. Some areas were completely new, or heavily changed, to the point where it becomes unrecognizable. It's something that would take time to get used to, and not physically exploring the maps on your own doesn't help. I barely knew Basement, since they drastically altered it. Still, I absolutely applaud their continued efforts to keep GoldenEye alive and well in modern gaming.
 
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Kerr Avon
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 PostPosted: Thu Jan 19, 2017 7:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

TheMaskedMutant wrote:
Goldeneye Source is really fantastic i just wish it had single player -_-


Yes. I don't play Goldeneye Source as I'm not a fan of online gaming, and I just don't understand why they don't add a single player mode to it. It would be a lot work, but it would be well worth it, since it would be very popular. They already has the levels (though some might require small modifications to suit the single player campaign), the weapons, the sounds (aside from speech and other single player sounds), and even a loyal fanbase, so why not make a single player game of it? Even if it takes two or three years it should be worth the wait.

We can but hope...
 
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Wreck
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 PostPosted: Thu Jan 19, 2017 12:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

If they decide to use the current designs of the levels, as shown in Ryani's video, than some major changes will be necessary in the mission campaign. Take Dam and Depot for instance. Objectives, enemy placement, props, etc. Would certainly make things unique from the original.
 
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PaRaDoX
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 PostPosted: Thu Jan 19, 2017 3:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

I agree with Wreck, some of the new additions are really confusing. BUT: They do feel really realistic and I do applaud them for that.
 
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AL64inthedark
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 PostPosted: Thu Jan 19, 2017 4:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

They just add passages that connect parts that exist on the original if you really take a look.
Make sense for multiplayer to avoir linerarity. Some would work very nice on N64 with more than 4 player/bots.
What's funny is no upgrade can make bunker looks better Smile
The original with those grey textures from the doors have something special to me.
 
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Wreck
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 PostPosted: Thu Jan 19, 2017 5:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

Passages are one thing, entire new sections is another. Like the Dam. That's really extensive additions. And I think it is the area in Bunker ii where the drone guns are that has been dramatically altered. Silo also had me scratching my head. In Caverns, did they move the area before the spiral ramp to after it? That was a strange sight I was trying to figure out.
 
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AL64inthedark
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 PostPosted: Thu Jan 19, 2017 11:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

It's pretty realistic for Dam. And if you think about it, it would be a very uninteresting map without this. Too linear to add any strategy.
It fits perfectly.
Yeah Silo is still hard for me to understand ^^
That particular area in Bunker was boring anyway imho in the original, and kinda doesn't make sens. I mean, what's the point to have such a place with a drone gun like that.
 
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Ryani
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 PostPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2017 6:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

Silo appears to be the final two thirds, in a sort of figure 8. As you can see I got lost myself trying to follow it backwards. I did my best to follow the campaign path, but that one was tricky to find the START.

Online, however, the flow is really good. You don't think too much about where you are because if you keep moving forward you're unlikely to back yourself into a dead end. There are some areas that are undeniably better than the original map designs, too - like the red/blue maze in Bunker which is now a generator room. I always avoided the maze in the original. it was too dark and confusing. Same goes for that little dark tunnel shortcut in Caverns. It was too dangerous to risk using it.

The good changes are stuff like adding a larder to the Bunker that connects the prison floor with the main room, making it circular. Much more intuitive for multiplayer. For singleplayer, I reckon a few locked doors and invisible walls would make most of these levels easy to convert to singleplayer. I guess the people who make it are the kind of gamer that exists these days - the ones who'd like Quake 3 to be the original Quake instead Sad

(Also if anyone's interested I just recorded my first ever Control run (and on 00 Agent). Turned out surprisingly okay considering I only attempted the first two rooms twice before just giving the whole thing a go. Are there any other Goldeneye/PD videos you guys would be interested in?)
 
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Graslu
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 PostPosted: Sat Jan 21, 2017 3:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

Kerr Avon wrote:
TheMaskedMutant wrote:
Goldeneye Source is really fantastic i just wish it had single player -_-


Yes. I don't play Goldeneye Source as I'm not a fan of online gaming, and I just don't understand why they don't add a single player mode to it. It would be a lot work, but it would be well worth it, since it would be very popular. They already has the levels (though some might require small modifications to suit the single player campaign), the weapons, the sounds (aside from speech and other single player sounds), and even a loyal fanbase, so why not make a single player game of it? Even if it takes two or three years it should be worth the wait.

We can but hope...


It's not that easy.
I'm in the developer team as a Beta Tester for GoldenEye: Source and this has been discussed tons of times.


It's not as simple as "We already have the content, slap some NPCs in there, say it's singleplayer and release to the public". No, that wouldn't do any justice to the original N64 campaign, that'd look like something badly made in Garry's Mod.
It'd need tons of scripting, objectives, hurt animations (just an example) and a lot of other stuff that I even doubt it's possible with Source SDK 2007 which is what we're currently using. Without those it'd just feel plain and boring compared to the original game, and would be really bad for the mod itself. Would you play the GE campaign if it had none of those, it was just a linear level from a starting point to an end one without objectives to complete, just some NPCs around, without timers, cheats, etc? Probably not, or at least you wouldn't play it as much as the original one and it wouldn't be superior in any way. Think of it like the GE:X campaign which aims to improve the original experience. This would be the complete opposite.
We also hit the memory limit for the engine with the latest 5.0 release, so adding more content is pretty hard at this point without removing other or downgrading some stuff, this may not be an issue when (if) we upgrade to SDK 2013.

That being said, our team is really tiny. We currently have no one working on characters or animations, so we'd be stuck there for example.

It wouldn't take two or three years to make, it'd probably take more than five years. The jump from 4.2 to 5.0 alone took 4 years and that's because there was some time of inactivity inside the dev team, but the multiplayer part isn't finished yet so it still needs more updates that we're currently working on.
The developers are working on this completely for free during their free time, so asking them to put their work in SP for the next 5 years again is not really possible. Some of them are here since the mod first released in 2005.

The GE campaign is an unique thing that would need a lot of work to make something that does justice to it, and our team is currently too tiny for it and don't have the time to spend another 5 years on a project that gets nothing back.

______________

As for the maps, like AL64inthedark said, some of the changes were *needed* to make it work properly for multiplayer with around 8-12 players and 16 players maximum.
Dam had a lot of changes since the original level was basically just a line and it'd be pretty bad for the flow of a match. Dam wouldn't have been possible with just a few passages, it'd have been boring and plain looking. You need to make sure players will be able to identify different sections of a map so they can learn the layout easier, where the armor spawns, the weapon spawns, etc... If you make everything look the same it'll be harder for new players and, again, will look plain and boring.
Our development process always starts with a 1:1 copy of the original N64 level, we playtest there a bit, and suggest changes at the end of each playtest, then after a lot of weeks and we can call the layout final, the art direction of the map comes in and everything starts to take shape. If I remember correctly for Dam, the bunker next to the original N64 spawn wasn't always a bunker, it wasn't connected to the sewers area, etc... They go through a lot of changes to make sure it plays correctly and in the end looks good.
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Kerr Avon
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 PostPosted: Sat Jan 21, 2017 4:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

Graslu, thanks for the reply, it's always great to hear from someone behind a good product. And Goldeneye Source is *very* impressive.

You make good points about a single player campaign - I don't know anything about the practical side of making a first person shooter, so none of what you posted occured to me, thanks for explaining the inherent problems and demands. I suppose like most things in life, making a game is a lot more complicated and demanding to do than it is for someone else to dream about!
 
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Graslu
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 PostPosted: Sat Jan 21, 2017 6:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

You're welcome!

It's free to dream so maybe some day we'll get enough devs to push a full singleplayer campaign, but the standards set by GE64 alone are pretty high, and we wouldn't like to release something that doesn't make justice to it.
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TheMaskedMutant
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 PostPosted: Sat Jan 21, 2017 6:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

[quote="graslu"][quote="Kerr Avon"][quote="TheMaskedMutant"]Goldeneye Source is really fantastic i just wish it had single player -_- [/quote]

Yes. I don't play Goldeneye Source as I'm not a fan of online gaming, and I just don't understand why they don't add a single player mode to it. It would be a lot work, but it would be well worth it, since it would be very popular. They already has the levels (though some might require small modifications to suit the single player campaign), the weapons, the sounds (aside from speech and other single player sounds), and even a loyal fanbase, so why not make a single player game of it? Even if it takes two or three years it should be worth the wait.

We can but hope...[/quote]

It's not that easy.
I'm in the developer team as a Beta Tester for GoldenEye: Source and this has been discussed tons of times.
It's not as simple as "We already have the content, slap some NPCs in there, say it's singleplayer and release to the public". No, that wouldn't do any justice to the original N64 campaign, that'd look like something badly made in Garry's Mod.
It'd need tons of scripting, objectives, hurt animations (just an example) and a lot of other stuff that I even doubt it's possible with Source SDK 2007 which is what we're currently using. Without those it'd just feel plain and boring compared to the original game, and would be really bad for the mod itself. Would you play the GE campaign if it had none of those, it was just a linear level from a starting point to an end one without objectives to complete, just some NPCs around, without timers, cheats, etc? Probably not, or at least you wouldn't play it as much as the original one and it wouldn't be superior in any way. Think of it like the GE:X campaign which aims to improve the original experience. This would be the complete opposite.
We also hit the memory limit for the engine with the latest 5.0 release, so adding more content is pretty hard at this point without removing other or downgrading some stuff, this may not be an issue when (if) we upgrade to SDK 2013.

That being said, our team is really tiny. We currently have no one working on characters or animations, so we'd be stuck there for example.

It wouldn't take two or three years to make, it'd probably take more than five years. The jump from 4.2 to 5.0 alone took 4 years and that's because there was some time of inactivity inside the dev team, but the multiplayer part isn't finished yet so it still needs more updates that we're currently working on.
The developers are working on this completely for free during their free time, so asking them to put their work in SP for the next 5 years again is not really possible. Some of them are here since the mod first released in 2005.

The GE campaign is an unique thing that would need a lot of work to make something that does justice to it, and our team is currently too tiny for it and don't have the time to spend another 5 years on a project that gets nothing back.
_____________
As for the maps, like AL64inthedark said, some of the changes were *needed* to make it work properly for multiplayer with around 8-12 players and 16 players maximum.
Dam had a lot of changes since the original level was basically just a line and it'd be pretty bad for the flow of a match. Dam wouldn't have been possible with just a few passages, it'd have been boring and plain looking. You need to make sure players will be able to identify different sections of a map so they can learn the layout easier, where the armor spawns, the weapon spawns, etc... If you make everything look the same it'll be harder for new players and, again, will look plain and boring.
Our development process always starts with a 1:1 copy of the original N64 level, we playtest there a bit, and suggest changes at the end of each playtest, then after a lot of weeks and we can call the layout final, the art direction of the map comes in and everything starts to take shape. If I remember correctly for Dam, the bunker next to the original N64 spawn wasn't always a bunker, it wasn't connected to the sewers area, etc... They go through a lot of changes to make sure it plays correctly and in the end looks good.[/quote]

yeah you raise a well valid point, i guess it will take a long while (if at all) to get GES a single player. its a shame that you guys cant port the animations, levels, weapons and characters into unreal engine or unity engine or something that would be much easier :/

anyway GES still has a while to go to get maps like Streets and Surface into the game
 
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AL64inthedark
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 PostPosted: Sat Jan 21, 2017 6:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

Honestly, I don't think it would deliver a decent single player experience anyway.
To me, to be decent, it would need to feel like GE64, enemies with slow animation overall, and must be played with a controller, no keyboard (otherwise you're too fast and the game is too easy. Not as enjoyable as the more slower pace that the original is, with its control scheme).

Considering the state of the multiplayer today (It's great on every aspect but don't play at all like GE64) this would mean almost recreating a whole new game.
 
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