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Which MP weapons that I have excluded would you want? If so, message what you'd sacrifice.
Phoenix
0%
 0%  [ 0 ]
Magnum-LX
0%
 0%  [ 0 ]
Reaper
10%
 10%  [ 1 ]
Combat knife / Crossbow / Tranquliser / N-bomb
20%
 20%  [ 2 ]
Grenades PD / mines PD
0%
 0%  [ 0 ]
Shield
0%
 0%  [ 0 ]
Gold / Silver PP7
10%
 10%  [ 1 ]
D5K silenced
20%
 20%  [ 2 ]
Shotgun GE (not auto)
10%
 10%  [ 1 ]
Agree, sacrifice the above as limited value / better equivalents
30%
 30%  [ 3 ]
Total Votes : 10

Dark Reyn
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 PostPosted: Wed Dec 20, 2017 9:59 am    Post subject: Golden Dark Reply with quote Back to top

I'm pretty new to the forum and modding generally. Since playing Goldeneye X and seeing how much Wreck, SubDrag and everyone else involved has managed to achieve, it started me wondering what was possible and if I could make a mod, what it would look like. The main thing that kept GE and PD alive was the multiplayer and it seems to me that with all the groundwork done for GE-X (and PD+) there is the potential to have the best of both games.

Initially I was thinking about what the solo campaign might look like for a crossover game Golden Dark (Perfect Eye sounds odd).
Wreck posted this a while ago: http://www.shootersforever.com/forums_message_boards/viewtopic.php?t=4688
Whilst there is still the potential to include a crossover solo campaign, I'm now realising what an ambitious project that would be so I will park that idea for now.

I thought I would focus on crossover multiplayer. If there are no solo missions then it increases capacity for the multiplayer anyway. It looks like it is possible to have extra maps, textures, models and weapons. But there are limits and they probably apply roughly in that order (ie extra maps easier than extra weapons) from what I have gathered from Wreck.

Therefore I need to work out which maps and weapons are preferred and would provide the right balance for gameplay. Assuming the allowance of 16 maps and 35 (edit: 44, same as GEX) weapons (although with potential to increase), my preference would be:

Skedar, Pipes, Ravine, G5, Sewers, Grid, Temple PD, Complex PD, Felicity, Caves, Library, Basement, Stack, Bunker 2, Archives, Caverns

ie not Warehouse, Ruins, Area 52, Base, Fortress, Villa, Car Park, Temple GE, Complex GE, Facility

Falcon 2, Falcon 2 silence, Falcon 2 scope, Magsec, Mauler, Magnum PD, CMP150, Callisto, RCP120, Laptop, Dragon, K7, AR34, Superdragon, Shotgun PD, Sniper PD, Farsight, Devastator, Rocker lancher PD, Slayer, Cloak, Combat boost, PP7, PP7 silenced, DD44, Cougar, GG, ZMG, Phantom, Klobb, RCP90, D5K, KF7, AR33, Auto shotgun, Sniper GE, Laser GE, Grenade launcher, Rocket launcher GE, Grenade GE, Timed GE, Proximity GE, Remote GE

ie not Phoenix, Magnum-LX, Reaper, Combat knife, Crossbow, Tranquliser, Grenade PD, N-bomb, Timed PD, Proximity PD, Remote PD, Shield, Gold pp7, Silver pp7, D5K silenced, Shotgun GE

I haven't included any of the extra maps or weapons in GE-X or PD+ in the list. I'd be interested to know other people's take on which maps and particularly, which weapons, are higher on their priority list.

As above, I probably won't get this off the ground but I thought I'd at least see what the consensus is and get the ball rolling a bit.


Last edited by Dark Reyn on Sun Dec 24, 2017 4:05 pm; edited 11 times in total
 
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Beatlemaniac19
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 PostPosted: Thu Dec 21, 2017 6:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

Totally with you on a multiplayer only Perfect Dark mod. IMO Perfect Dark is the best multiplayer FPS game of all-time so it seems like a natural idea to make a multiplayer only version of the game, especially given that there's more maps avaialable, as this could make this mod the definitive multiplayer mod. I think a compilation of all of the maps would be awesome. I think it would be best to include a compilation of Perfect Dark maps, GoldenEye maps, and mod maps (if the modders allow your blessing). Here's my recommendations along with the game included in parentheses:
-Temple (PD version)
-Facility (PD version)
-Complex (PD version)
-Archives (GEX version)
-Aztec (GEX version)
-Caves (PD+ version)
-Train (GEX version)
-Library (GEX or PD+ version)
-Labyrinth (GEX)
-Icycle Pyramid (GEX)
-Citadel (GEX)
-Peach's Castle
-Kakariko Village

I'm obviously missing some stages, but that's my own two cents on the stages I'd like to see. Also a combination of character models from both games would be cool, as well as including the Santa Claus character model Wink
 
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 PostPosted: Thu Dec 21, 2017 9:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

This would indeed be pretty cool .
 
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Wreck
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 PostPosted: Thu Dec 21, 2017 6:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

I feel some of the interesting weapon types that Perfect Dark introduced are worth keeping. The Phoenix is unique, having explosive rounds. The Reaper is the only spinning firearm from either game. FarSight is obviously a very technologically advanced rifle. The N-Bomb is designed to disarm and disorient anyone caught in the vortex. Slayer is just plain fun to use. The crossbow is also a nice addition.

For characters, I remembered something. The way the necks and heads were designed in Perfect Dark is different from GE. A simple way to physically see the difference is in multiplayer. Walk up to a character and have them look all the way down. In GoldenEye, their chin will stick into their chest. This does not happen in PD. The team must have realized this, and adjusted the parts to improve it. So, what am I getting at? Straight ported GE characters will not align with PD characters. It may be possible one of the offset values could help this, but in the case of GE-X, SubDrag manually edited the three human Perfect Dark characters so they would work with the GE models.

Levels, if excluding solo, you could have all from PD's Combat Simulator, and all from GE's multiplayer. That's 27. Even with the mission campaign, that should be fine. But weapons and characters must be merged. You'd have to pick and choose the weapons and character roster. Not that it's a bad thing. Too much of a good thing ain't always a good thing. Like eating an entire bucket of ice cream in one sitting.
 
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Lazlo52
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 PostPosted: Thu Dec 21, 2017 7:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

I wonder how possible it is to turn the would-be unused gadgets into proper weapons. I understand PD can use pointers for function and reload blocks, but too much reliance on that could make the weapons less unique from each other.
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 PostPosted: Thu Dec 21, 2017 9:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

I kinda like the combat knife (for its throwing function) as a crap weapon inside a setup. But truth is I actually very rarely add it.
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Dark Reyn
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 PostPosted: Fri Dec 22, 2017 2:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

Wreck wrote:
I feel some of the interesting weapon types that Perfect Dark introduced are worth keeping. The Phoenix is unique, having explosive rounds. The Reaper is the only spinning firearm from either game. FarSight is obviously a very technologically advanced rifle. The N-Bomb is designed to disarm and disorient anyone caught in the vortex. Slayer is just plain fun to use. The crossbow is also a nice addition.
I suggest keep the Farsight and Slayer. All good points re the others but in my experience all the other weapons are terrible in multiplayer, particularly with sims. My friends and I used to play random weapons but be allowed to change it one position up/down on the list. My simple criterion for the rejected PD weapons is, which weapons did we veto the most? I fully accept that their are different opinions her but, given the choice, do you really want to play with the reaper (etc)? And if so, what do you sacrifice?

Last edited by Dark Reyn on Sat Dec 23, 2017 2:24 pm; edited 1 time in total
 
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 PostPosted: Fri Dec 22, 2017 4:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

I don't mean to put a damper on this, but making a new gun is not a easy task.
You need to fix draw order, divide the gun into rooms, envelope, and make sure the gun doesn't render into a mess once you turn.
Additionally, PD has a bigger room limit than GE, meaning optimization is required.
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Wreck
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 PostPosted: Mon Dec 25, 2017 8:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

The knife is also involved in each game. With it being both throwing and slashing in one weapon, it is certainly worth having it. I would disable the poison effect, if given the choice.

I'd rather have some unique weapons included, rather than too many similar rapid fire machine guns or burst fire rifles. I think it should come down to usefulness, speciality, and fun.

Siul: I imagine this mod would be for PD. Perfect Dark is a little more forgiving than GoldenEye when it comes to first-person weapon models. I have not had to do anything with GE models when bringing them into PD (aside from dissecting into working parts), but PD weapons (like the CMP150) require adjusting so the model draws correctly in GE.
 
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Dark Reyn
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 PostPosted: Tue Jan 02, 2018 11:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

Thanks for the comments. I haven't done much work on the actual mod over the festive period and am still not finding the process particularly intuitive. However, I have been working on some crossover music. Also Nirurin (not a member here) has kindly put together a suitable logo:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/o5w00xq09eknq99/GD.jpg

If we were to include all the specialist PD weapons into the list above that would mean 6 more weapons (Phoenix, Reaper, Combat knife, Crossbow, Tranquiliser and N-Bomb). Then the question would be which do we sacrifice? Nirurin made the reasonable point that having 2 PP7s and 3 F2s was probably unnecessary so you could remove both the standard varieties at least. As it stands we've also still got both magnums, both rocket launchers, both sniper rifles, both grenade launchers and 2 shotguns (PD and GE auto). If I was pushed to remove a further 4 then perhaps ditch the PD magnum, PD sniper, GE auto shotgun (I like this weapon but the PD one has more versatility) and maybe the phantom (the only non-MP GE gun I had included).
 
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Lazlo52
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 PostPosted: Tue Jan 02, 2018 1:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

It depends on which kind of variety you want. Do you prefer to include the looks of the weapons or the functionality of them? If you want the looks, then maybe it's okay to have both grenade launchers. If you want the functionality, there's likely no reason to have both grenade launchers since PD's is both normal and has the unique function.

That's only one example. Ultimately, you need to figure out whether it's models or functionality you want, and what the community's consensus is.


That's what I think, anyway. I like a consistent game plan.
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Dark Reyn
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 PostPosted: Tue Jan 02, 2018 2:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

I think functionality definitely. I had the impression that there were some differences in the grenade launchers and rocket launchers but if not then there is little point in duplicates.

Actually, this may apply to some of the various sub machine guns. For example do the CMP and ZMG have the same stats, AR33 and 34 also.
 
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 PostPosted: Tue Jan 02, 2018 6:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

Yeah, we definitely don't need every incarnation of the PP7 and Falcon 2. Also, as mentioned with the ZMG and CMP150, weapons that are nearly identical both don't really need to be there. But then you need to choose which to keep, and PD guns include extra features that could sway their usefulness.

I would say PD Grenade Launcher, GE Rocket Launcher, and PD Slayer. Probably GE's hand grenade. The mines are basically just visual differences, though remote does have the extra detonator model included in the left hand.
 
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Lazlo52
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 PostPosted: Tue Jan 02, 2018 6:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

Dark Reyn wrote:
I think functionality definitely. I had the impression that there were some differences in the grenade launchers and rocket launchers but if not then there is little point in duplicates.

Actually, this may apply to some of the various sub machine guns. For example do the CMP and ZMG have the same stats, AR33 and 34 also.


Okay, somewhat poor example on my end. I checked just now, and the grenade launchers do differ in their arc—PD's can shoot farther away. Always double-check!

The specialty weapons should both be kept in and be the first to remove for more unique options.
- The crossbow and tranquilizer effectively do the same thing, but at different ranges. Tranquilizer might be more fair because its instant kill is close range only.
- The Dragon might not need its Super variant, or perhaps vice-versa. Depends on which one is better for multiplayer, I guess.
- No matter which set of knives you choose, they can be fitted into one slot, as evidenced by PD and GE-X.
- The rocket launcher of the mod could be condensed into one weapon since Homing Rocket can be left un-targeted for dumbfire and, of course, the secondary could be Remote-Controlled.

The rocket launcher bit got me wondering, though. Are you taking a minimum force approach when it comes to adding the weapons? That is, would you edit the rocket launcher to have both homing and remote rockets if you needed to? or do you want the weapons to be strictly as they were in their game?


(Sorry, I kinda spewed out a bunch of thoughts at once. I hope I organized 'em)
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Dark Reyn
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 PostPosted: Tue Jan 02, 2018 11:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

I was invisaging keeping the weapons true to original form. I'm assuming that the AR33 and ZMG are redundant. I agree entirely with Wreck about rockets/ grenades. So if we are including specialist weapons then I can get the list down to 40 with the revised list as follows:

Falcon 2 silence, Falcon 2 scope, Magsec, Mauler, Phoenix, CMP150, Callisto, RCP120, Laptop, Dragon, K7, AR34, Superdragon, Shotgun PD, Reaper, Farsight, Devastator, Slayer, Combat knife, Crossbow, Tranquliser, N-bomb, Cloak, Combat boost, PP7 silenced, DD44, Cougar, GG, Phantom, Klobb, RCP90, D5K, KF7, Sniper GE, Laser GE, Rocket launcher GE, Grenade GE, Timed GE, Proximity GE, Remote GE

ie not Falcon 2, Magnum PD, Magnum-LX, Sniper PD, Rocker lancher PD, Grenade PD, Timed PD, Proximity PD, Remote PD, Shield, PP7, Gold pp7, Silver pp7, ZMG, AR33, D5K silenced, Auto shotgun, Shotgun GE, Grenade launcher

If capacity then I suggest the priority of the removed weapons be something like:
Auto shotgun, Grenade launcher, Rocker lancher PD, Magnum PD, Shotgun GE, Magnum-LX, Sniper PD, Gold pp7, Silver pp7, PP7, ZMG, AR33, Falcon 2, D5K silenced, Grenade PD, Timed PD, Proximity PD, Remote PD, Shield
 
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