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Question about path importing for PD
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MRKane
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 PostPosted: Fri May 04, 2018 5:13 am    Post subject: Question about path importing for PD Reply with quote Back to top

Quick question about importing paths into maps for PD:
I can export edges from Blender as an obj which seem to fit the basic description for importing paths for the AI to follow. I'll note that I've not got quite this far yet, but after the hassles getting the BSP into the level I decided to just ask lol

Is there any magic spacing for the nodes? Do the nodes have to align in some way to the "ground"? If they've only got to be "kind of around the ground" then I think I should be all set Smile
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SubDrag
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 PostPosted: Fri May 04, 2018 5:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

The height doesn't matter, but they are guard navigation mesh, so you have to reasonably space, not too close doorways, enough to navigate all the rooms, etc. I would look at an existing level.

Does it even import paths? I can't remember...always do in editor. You might want to do some tests.
 
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MRKane
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 PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2018 5:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

Right! I finally got this far today Smile

Blender exporting paths as an obj appears to be successful, but they're mirrored on the X axis. Is there any linking that's required to have the AI correctly engage Jo in the level? I've dropped one AI character down and it's run around a bit and shot at me but doesn't seem to follow. This suggests that I'd need to link something further up.

In saying that, aside from a couple of the levels I'm planning the sophistication of the AI isn't going to need to be anything more than an interesting target.
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Wreck
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 PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2018 5:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

PD's guards can be weird at times, and won't actually follow the player around. They will often wait for you, rather than chase after you. It may come down to their bitflags and action block settings. These guys are definitely more advanced than GoldenEye's guards. Trying to set them up in custom missions is tricky, to say the least.
 
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MRKane
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 PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2018 6:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

I figured that putting down the action block "Run to Jo and attack" would be a good test of pathing, but the AI just crouches and shoots. I'd conclude from that that my paths aren't setup correctly.

I'd better sit down and see if I can figure out how to connect them in a logical and easy method, or even how to have Blender generate the linkage file itself. Idealistically it'd be something the editor could pull from the obj file that it imports into the level as paths, but I don't think this is a feature people use much.
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Wreck
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 PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2018 6:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

If you try any of the missions in GE-X, you can encounter guards who would prefer to wait in the room you found them in, as they stand or kneel aiming in your direction. Instead of running after you as you leave the room, they stay put. Not like in Combat Simulator, where they will chase you down to the end of the Earth.

If you notice any crashing at all, it may be an error in the AI Path Network. Everything needs to connect forwards and backwards (like Pad 0061 to 0078, and 0078 to 0061), including the Set number. Pay close attention, if you can, to where the guard is as the crash occurs. That can help narrow down the section. You could always test your level in Combat Simulator, and watch to see how the Sims get around. Using invincible and cloak are great helps there.
 
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MRKane
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 PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2018 7:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

Hmmmm...that's just the navigation paths and not the "walk this way" paths? I don't think any of them got connected up in the import, at least I cannot find any reference for this. I'm having difficulty finding a good tutorial or figuring out how to do it in the editor.
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Wreck
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 PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2018 7:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

I think the Editor in Visual mode differentiates them as "Paths" and "Sets". The sets would be the main AI network, which connect everything together across the map. The paths are the patrol routines used by specific guards. The paths should need to use pads that are included in the network in order for the guard to use them correctly and transition onto the rest of the network once you trigger them.
 
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MRKane
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 PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2018 7:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

Ok - we're onto something. There's a "Sets On" option which shows that the editor DID import them correctly. I could do with editing them a little...how do we delete them now? lol
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Wreck
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 PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2018 8:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

Yeah, definitely turn the "Sets On" in Visual. It will show connecting lines between the green coloured pads, indicating that your sets are being setup correctly.

You can right-click on a green pad and choose "Remove Path Set Entry" to delete it out of the AI Path Network. It should turn another colour, likely blue, and the lines from other green pads should no longer appear connecting to it.
 
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Lazlo52
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 PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2018 8:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

MRKane wrote:
I figured that putting down the action block "Run to Jo and attack" would be a good test of pathing, but the AI just crouches and shoots. I'd conclude from that that my paths aren't setup correctly.


Aaaah! Finally, someone mentions it! I don't mean to distract you while you focus on learning Sets, but I know why placed guards aren't following you. The common mistake I see in custom mission PD guards is the bitflags on guards, "Guard Stays in Place". Both are set by default in the Editor, even though only a few vanilla missions utilize it at all.

In the main window or Visual Editor, click Edit Setup, then Edit Objects. From there, you can un-check those "Guard Stays in Place" flags on 09-type Characters. After unsetting both of those flags, the only things I've noticed that'll stop up the guard is a lack of Extra Pads in the area, and an error somewhere in the built-in Action Blocks (both cases, the guard will constantly try to kneel and un-kneel). Unfortunately, the re-kneeling oddity is very common when there are no Extra Pads, and it manages to persist in certain spots for custom background models. When I get back into playing around with this game, I really ought to find and fix that re-kneeling loop for the humans...


Is the Object Editor not used often for guards? It's really strange to me this "guard won't move" thing has been around for so long, yet is as simple as unsetting two flags...
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Last edited by Lazlo52 on Mon May 21, 2018 8:44 pm; edited 1 time in total
 
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MRKane
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 PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2018 8:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

I meant removing all of them as my original blender export wasn't correct. I'm still in the process of iterating through things and it's a better workflow to import externally than to do small tweaks. Also: What does "make level bare bones" do? I don't notice any difference there.
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Lazlo52
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 PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2018 8:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

MRKane wrote:
I meant removing all of them as my original blender export wasn't correct. I'm still in the process of iterating through things and it's a better workflow to import externally than to do small tweaks. Also: What does "make level bare bones" do? I don't notice any difference there.


Since you ninja'd my post, I can tell you that the Bare-Bones option is for scrapping almost all objects and scripts in an already made level. Typically is used for vanilla levels, so it doesn't remove path sets.
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 PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2018 9:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

It will remove everything except a few odd things....

The AI Path Network
Doors
Glass
Start Pad

It is useful for turning solo mission levels into multi maps, or for making custom setups for missions, without losing the paths or tedious to position / necessary props.

I'm not entirely sure if there is any option to remove the entire path network at once. One thing you can try, is open Cuba in GE mode, and choose to Export Sets. This is an empty one, so importing it into another level will remove all green coloured pads (they become blue). Again, you'd need to physically delete them, or use the option in the Edit Pads menu to delete all unused pads (which may or may not take away stuff you want to keep).
 
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MRKane
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 PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2018 4:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

Yes, rather concluded all of that. I don't know if anyone has gone about level creation with such...vigour as I've been trying to do here. I suppose in saying that I can always scare-strip the level by creating a new one form scratch and re-importing everything from fresh Smile I've been slowly picking through all of the obvious issues.

Still don't know how to change level ordering however.
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