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CD-Quality GoldenEye 007 Music Revisted
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NutShot
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 PostPosted: Mon Dec 24, 2018 8:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

I have a question:
Can you do anything with a single Midi Soundset?
I have a mod for Goldeneye 64 which revamps the music in a different way so you have new songs but with the same instruments. There are some songs which are interestingly really good in this.
Can you work on something like this or do you need more then just a midi Sound set?
https://chlindincomposer.wixsite.com/chlindin/midi-downloads

It is coming from this site:
http://n64vault.com/ge-misc:custom-music
 
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L. Spiro
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 PostPosted: Fri Dec 28, 2018 4:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

Perfectly balanced GoldenEye 007 (final recordings, forever) added to the playlist: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLWsnao9n727PT17V5AzCkZYEQqeuVm01E
FLAC available for download: https://www.dropbox.com/s/kahlllo8ddyh6c7/GoldenEye%20007.rar?dl=0

Perfectly balanced final recordings of Perfect Dark in-progress.


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L. Spiro
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 PostPosted: Fri Dec 28, 2018 4:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

NutShot wrote:
I have a question:
Can you do anything with a single Midi Soundset?
I have a mod for Goldeneye 64 which revamps the music in a different way so you have new songs but with the same instruments. There are some songs which are interestingly really good in this.
Can you work on something like this or do you need more then just a midi Sound set?
https://chlindincomposer.wixsite.com/chlindin/midi-downloads

It is coming from this site:
http://n64vault.com/ge-misc:custom-music

As long as the samples and bank data are the same as in the game then only new MIDI files will be needed.
But there are too many in that set. Are there a specific 3 you want?


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NutShot
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 PostPosted: Sat Dec 29, 2018 11:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

L. Spiro wrote:
NutShot wrote:
I have a question:
Can you do anything with a single Midi Soundset?
I have a mod for Goldeneye 64 which revamps the music in a different way so you have new songs but with the same instruments. There are some songs which are interestingly really good in this.
Can you work on something like this or do you need more then just a midi Sound set?
https://chlindincomposer.wixsite.com/chlindin/midi-downloads

It is coming from this site:
http://n64vault.com/ge-misc:custom-music

As long as the samples and bank data are the same as in the game then only new MIDI files will be needed.
But there are too many in that set. Are there a specific 3 you want?


L. Spiro


Thank you very much for your recent GoldenEye Update and the download link too. Smile
About the Midi i posted before, i don´t really have favorite ones, cause the whole soundtrack was replaced. Every single song. But maybe you could may take a look into "Cradle".
 
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L. Spiro
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 PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2019 4:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

I will give another update just because I said I would get back to my regular schedule of daily uploads yet it appears the Perfect Dark set has stalled (and because there are slightly interesting tidbits to mention in the update).

The new Perfect Dark sets were stopped after I heard too many weird balancing issues that I was positive weren't there last time I recorded it.
Listen to the pulse samples that first seem a bit quiet and then at 2:28 pan hard left and are too loud.
https://youtu.be/vOu8IlAwNoo?list=PLWsnao9n727OrLod3kmWZWrj6tl7IQiO-&t=140

One of the reasons Perfect Dark has been so hard to get right is because it is technologically much more advanced, and that includes the sound system/synthesis.
Nintendo 64's synthesis is at least partially done in software that can be modified/customized/tweaked, so it appears they implemented arc-pan for Perfect Dark.

The only way for me to know is to record a few songs and hear balancing issues. You can hear how playing an arc-pan MIDI with an x-pan system creates louder sounds at the far left and right.


It turns out this also explains the untold troubles I have been having with Defection.
** FUN FACTS **
Graeme Norgate only composed 2 songs in Perfect Dark before leaving (though he also created the sound palette used throughout the game). The first was Defection (it was the first song composed in the game). Grant Kirkhope was left to create Defection X, trying to match Graeme's sound (normally the same composer will do a whole set of related tracks).
After he left, Rare made some breakthroughs on their synthesis engine and implemented arc-panning (I expect to find it in Conker's Bad Fur Day too).
Grant Kirkhope had to rebalance both of the songs Graeme had made.
But that's not all! Grant also changed the sound palette just a bit, overwriting a few of the instruments originally used in Defection (and he removed one track entirely!)
Notice the different samples used here in the game: https://youtu.be/dJY0R_fFS50?t=89
Compared to here on the OST: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AWSbNTwqCKY&t=89

Defection has been a very troubling song for me. It uses balancing that is a mix between adjustments made in the MIDI file and at run-time (every track has a run-time volume, which is how they fade in strings and percussion in Dire, Dire Docks), plus the source material I was using as a reference was usually the older version from the CD, which is balanced entirely differently!
It's a very rare case for a song indeed.
But being aware of all of this, I switched back to arc-pan and made the correct balancing adjustments using the correct source material (I recorded the game itself, myself), so I finally have a perfect recording of Defection. Finally.
I might also be able to put up an OST version of Defection with those samples replaced, but no promises.



After finding all of this, I have already re-recorded most of the Perfect Dark songs I recently uploaded, but I am now deciding whether I want to keep the videos in the same format.

The videos are recordings of the actual Perfect Dark opening on a real Nintendo 64, chosen over emulation for reasons, but the final image quality is so blurry it makes me personally feel as if I am watching a low-res video with sound that might have degraded quality. This is of course only mental; all videos have the same sound settings, but even though it is just a feeling it might be worth going back to normal videos with a single static image if other people are mentally "feeling" lower quality in the results just because of the burry mess in the visual department.

So currently I am considering how to do the videos again and I won't create or upload any until I have decided (this has no impact on my recording of the actual songs).
What would people like to see (and not see)?
#1: We need the songs! Just upload the videos even with a static image!
#2: Those backgrounds are cool! Keep them!
#3: The backgrounds are cool, but blurry. Keep them if you can increase the quality without too much of a delay.
#4: Make them higher in quality even if there is a delay of up to 3 weeks.


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Thundera8589
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 PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2019 8:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

See. This is what I was trying to tell you before. I guess this explains why the Goldeneye midi tracks sound different in Goldeneye X compared to the original Goldneye. However, now I'm not sure if it's the individual instruments that need their pan changed or if they have to do with the midi files themselves. Grr, I wish you could've talked to someone involved with GE-X muisc and sounds and helped them working on fixing them so that they sound exactly like the og Goldeneye.

I even had someone tell me that Runway X (which is the person's favorite track) sounds different as well.
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L. Spiro
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 PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2019 10:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

Thundera8589 wrote:
See. This is what I was trying to tell you before. I guess this explains why the Goldeneye midi tracks sound different in Goldeneye X compared to the original Goldneye.

This is what I have been trying to tell you. They sound different because they use different pan modes, which means they calculate how much volume to give each channel to create the stereo effect in different ways. It may be a difference in pan modes, but it is a volume problem.
GoldenEye 007 uses x-pan, which is why it sounds correct now and did not before.
Perfect Dark was using arc-pan and was correct before and now is not. I expect that its MIDI files sound more accurate when played with SoundFonts than the GoldenEye 007 tracks do.


Thundera8589 wrote:
However, now I'm not sure if it's the individual instruments that need their pan changed or if they have to do with the midi files themselves.

Again, the issue is volume. Their pans are already correct.
I have already explained this, but let me try again.
The instrument correctly has a pan of 0 (centered).
A system that uses x-pan generates 50% volume on both the L and R channels when synthesizing the sample at center. The combined volume is 0.7071.
A system that uses arc-pan generates 70.71% volume on both the L and R channels when synthesizing the sample at center. The combined volume is 1.0.

As you can see, the pan mode determines the volume of the samples differently from L to R.
The only true fix is to use correct synthesis, but failing that the only other thing you can do is what I already explained before: Accounting for the difference in volume based on pan by using the Expression MIDI control.



Thundera8589 wrote:
Grr, I wish you could've talked to someone involved with GE-X muisc and sounds and helped them working on fixing them so that they sound exactly like the og Goldeneye.

It would not have done anything. You would have to write a synthesis driver. No one is going to do that.
What you can still do is process the MIDI files and generate new ones with the Expression control used to adjust volumes based off pan (which means moving any multi-panned samples to their own tracks based on which notes are assigned which pan values). Or since I already do this I could generate these files for you, if there is reason to believe they will actually be used.



Thundera8589 wrote:
I even had someone tell me that Runway X (which is the person's favorite track) sounds different as well.

I hear some slight issues that should be fixable and will upload a new version soon.


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Trevor
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 PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2019 9:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

L. Spiro wrote:

Thundera8589 wrote:
Grr, I wish you could've talked to someone involved with GE-X muisc and sounds and helped them working on fixing them so that they sound exactly like the og Goldeneye.

It would not have done anything. You would have to write a synthesis driver. No one is going to do that.
What you can still do is process the MIDI files and generate new ones with the Expression control used to adjust volumes based off pan (which means moving any multi-panned samples to their own tracks based on which notes are assigned which pan values). Or since I already do this I could generate these files for you, if there is reason to believe they will actually be used.



I wish to thank L.Spiro for verifying the pan modes used in GE vs PD.
PD's sound system in general is very much more advanced and exceeds GE in so many ways.

As to Thundera's request I can pretty much guarantee we will NOT be doing this. Why would you downgrade a sound system just to match a few edge cases with music.
Not to mention that how on earth is anyone going to be able to replace the synth driver in PD - its not like we have PD's source code.

And replacing the MIDI, while that might be easier, you don't want to be using many more calculations to music on an already limiting system - that is if Expression Control is even part of MIDI1 spec (is it not a MIDI2 spec?)

Trev
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L. Spiro
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 PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2019 10:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

Expression is MIDI control 11 and is original spec.
The MIDI files would be modified as follows:
#1: To have an expression control paired with every pan control. Expression controls would only appear as often as pan controls, so would only be "heavy" in a few sweeping effects. They are the same overhead as pan controls, which is basically none; they have the same bandwidth cost to parse and transfer, and expression is a volume scale in percentages and is applied to every sample generated regardless of its value (there is no extra run-time overhead).
#2: When a track uses samples with multiple pans, they will be split across tracks so that each track can handle the different pan/volume levels separately. It is theoretically possible for a song to go over 16 tracks this way, in which special case I will just have to handle it manually, likely by not splitting the tracks and accepting the slight difference in volume as the lesser of evils.


This doesn't fix every single song perfectly as they also did some balancing using the platform-specific run-time volume levels not found in MIDI, but I have logs on which tracks in which songs to change volume by how much and can manually adjust the few songs with these issues.

Again, assuming it will be used?


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Thundera8589
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 PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2019 7:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

@L.Spiro Thank you for all the info. It makes alot of sense now. No wonder I felt like some sounds needed to be adjusted from L and R to better hear them clearly.

@Trevor If she is giving us the information on the notes on the MIDI's I can't see why the team can't give it a try? Also did you ever get to try and fix the distorted noise in instruments 02 and 33?
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Thundera8589
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 PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2019 8:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

L. Spiro is there any chance with the logs you have that you can do a sample of one song with the MIDI fixes and upload a recording of it? Just as a sample. Like a sample of Silo X but only the first 30 seconds of the song.

This issue with the different pans may also be the reason why instruments 02 and 33 have that distorted bass-like sound. Maybe it fixes the tracks to songs like Jungle, Control, Control X, Elevator 1 and 2, and the MI6 Headquarters music that have that distorted bass sound for those instruments. That's probably the only way to really fix them.
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e2zippo
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 PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2019 3:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

Many thanks dude, these releases are awesome! Any chance to get them all in FLAC, and tagged properly, mainly track number?

Cheers!
 
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L. Spiro
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 PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2019 1:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

The FLAC link was posted above: https://www.dropbox.com/s/kahlllo8ddyh6c7/GoldenEye%20007.rar?dl=0
Perfect Dark is on the way. I just (30 minutes ago) got some final equipment for making the videos, so all that is left is to binge record.

I don’t currently plan to tag them all unless I find a free mass-tagger.
Because my sets include sound-effects, unreleased tracks, beta tracks, etc., and are not based on any CD’s or official listings, track numbers would be arbitrary. I rather let the user decide the order, especially since I am not familiar with every game OST I redo.


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e2zippo
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 PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2019 2:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

L. Spiro wrote:
The FLAC link was posted above: https://www.dropbox.com/s/kahlllo8ddyh6c7/GoldenEye%20007.rar?dl=0
Perfect Dark is on the way. I just (30 minutes ago) got some final equipment for making the videos, so all that is left is to binge record.

I don’t currently plan to tag them all unless I find a free mass-tagger.
Because my sets include sound-effects, unreleased tracks, beta tracks, etc., and are not based on any CD’s or official listings, track numbers would be arbitrary. I rather let the user decide the order, especially since I am not familiar with every game OST I redo.

Alright, I guess I can tag them myself Smile
But do you have the other soundtracks in FLAC, or are they just available on Youtube?

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L. Spiro
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 PostPosted: Wed Feb 06, 2019 1:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

Perfect Dark set FLAC: https://www.dropbox.com/s/tol8ri2bba3v063/Perfect%20Dark.rar?dl=0
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLWsnao9n727OrLod3kmWZWrj6tl7IQiO-

Since you asked for others:
Banjo-Kazooie: https://www.dropbox.com/s/rkuq6eux8z6ew5n/Banjo-Kazooie.rar?dl=0
Banjo-Tooie: https://www.dropbox.com/s/it6jelrrlzhh8vo/Banjo-Tooie.rar?dl=0
Army Men: Air Combat: https://www.dropbox.com/s/rkuq6eux8z6ew5n/Banjo-Kazooie.rar?dl=0

The rest on the way. Links in the playlist descriptions.


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