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Something breaking in Surface & Other maps...

 
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Wreck
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 PostPosted: Sun Apr 19, 2020 10:52 pm    Post subject: Something breaking in Surface & Other maps... Reply with quote Back to top

So I'm working on a fun side project, and the first level I am creating a new setup for is Surface ii. Everything has been going fine, but I've run into an extremely strange problem, which I believe I have encountered on another custom Surface map released in the past...

I climb the ladder to the ventilation tower, and as soon as I go over the lip and am about to drop onto the grating floor, the portals screw up. The whole outer area disappears, and only the lower interior is visible. But here's the thing: I made zero edits to background or clipping. And what makes this all the more confusing, is after I re-import the original level setup file, the issue remains! Even with all the original files, etc.

This happens in both Surface maps, but I have also found similar things happening in a few other maps, but mainly in Aztec. Once you climb the ladder to the exhaust bay door controls, things can get weird. Such as the control console not showing properly. That same thing occurred in BMW's Library map when I was editing it. The common thread is horizontal portals at ground level, where you are standing on top of.

Question is... why and how are these going bad?
 
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 PostPosted: Mon Apr 20, 2020 4:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

did you think you was the first? i notice that since ending 2016
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Wreck
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 PostPosted: Mon Apr 20, 2020 4:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

That's why I said I've encountered it before in another Surface mission somebody else released. It may have been one of yours, or possibly Rey. Regardless, it's a bizarre issue that deserves some attention, as I think there's more going on with it. Some sections in the fenced in area are also having worse portal issues than normally.
 
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SubDrag
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 PostPosted: Tue Apr 21, 2020 3:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

So what is different? Any binary files different in setup, bg, clipping in the ROM with restored setup? If not, 21990 changes that maybe we thought were debug and are related?
 
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Wreck
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 PostPosted: Tue Apr 21, 2020 7:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

I'm going to poke at this a bit more tonight. Maybe see when it first occurs. It's super weird, though. Hopefully somebody can piece things together and sort it out. I do think it impacts more than just each Surface, but that is the most noticeable. Horizontal portals at clipping level is only pattern I see with it.
 
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Wreck
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 PostPosted: Tue Apr 21, 2020 11:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

Alright, I believe I nailed down the issue. I started over from scratch, trying minor things to the original ROM. It turns out to be the level scale. Why? I didn't change it. Well, apparently the Editor did...

Surface 1 Scale
Before 3EE8AE9B -> After 3EE8AE97

It's such an incredibly minor change, but evidently enough to cause some strange behaviour in levels. I think because the Editor only uses up to one millionth (0.000000) for these float points, it's being rounded to a value different to the original. I know the Editor used to have more after the decimal point, and it appears that it may need to again in order to prevent these portal issues from occurring (some much worse than others).
 
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SubDrag
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 PostPosted: Wed Apr 22, 2020 12:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

Ah ok, good catch, interesting, must be rounding somewhere. Yeah
0.454457 = 3EE8AE97
0.45445713 = 3EE8AE9B

There are a lot of ways to save/inject. Can you tell me precise recreation steps? Not seeing when this happens myself in testing. This might explain some slight oddities attributed to clipping in levels like Depot and Facility (or not)
 
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Wreck
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 PostPosted: Wed Apr 22, 2020 7:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

My first test was to see if deleting debug data and J text did anything, but no. The second test was sky block related. I edited the sky and cloud colours and wrote ROM. On that test, the portal was broken. When I compared the original 21990 to my new one, there were three things that got changed. Obviously, the sky. The other two were mission part number RAM pointer (the Editor must use the earliest entry of that Roman Numeral in list [it was reusing the first part i from Dam] instead of its own), and the level scale was changed.

It's hard to say what all could be getting negatively affected. I suppose we'd need to take ROMs that have unresolved issues that have no answers, and see if that level scale was altered.


Edit: I wanted to look more into Aztec, because I know there has been some portal issues viewing props in at least a few custom missions (including one of my own tests before). Now while the scale does get altered on Aztec, it doesn't seem to be affecting this. It seems like it might be bitflags set on props directly on top of the clipping that is at portal height. Guards show OK, and so does the control console. In Research Complex, by ShiftClick, if you crouch down and look at the metal crate he placed up above the ladder, it will be cut in half through a horizontal portal. This may be normal behaviour for this part of the stage, should the right settings not be attributed to the prop.

One way to tell that this does affect even original Aztec, is to crouch down and fire at the connecting wall. If you keep standing up and kneeling back down, you'll see that the smoke from the impact will be affected, as well. Heck, even your remote mines can become invisible trying to plant them on that wall. So at least this isn't an Editor accident, but something the game does on its own.
 
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SubDrag
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 PostPosted: Sun Apr 26, 2020 2:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

It should be 10 digits as of last editor beta which should hopefully not cause the issue. Still surprising that so low a change impacts it. It's shockingly precise for that clipping.
 
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Wreck
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 PostPosted: Sun Apr 26, 2020 7:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

After copying in the original scale with the newest Editor, the issue was fixed. The portal trouble I was having in the fenced in area turned out to be a different cause, due to a piece of tinted glass affecting it. So the ventilation tower is the only current confirmed thing to break from the scale rounding thus far.
 
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 PostPosted: Wed Jan 27, 2021 11:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

Doesn't something like this also happen in Silo? If you enter a specific silo room slowly you just end up in the void.
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Wreck
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 PostPosted: Thu Jan 28, 2021 11:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

That can occur in a few places, and Silo is one. It is from the portal / clipping / BG not being properly aligned. If you stand in the exact spot in between them, part of the level will disappear. These issues need to be addressed within the level itself, whereas the Surface problem was directly related to scale.
 
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