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Possible to have more than one layer of transparent texture?

 
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AL64inthedark
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 PostPosted: Fri May 14, 2021 8:34 am    Post subject: Possible to have more than one layer of transparent texture? Reply with quote Back to top

Hey guys, thanks for reading me.

So, I have a metro map planned and I'd love to do such things :


So, we have a tiled wall with an opaque texture.
On top of that, a dirt layer with a 64x32x8IA.
Now that should work.

But what about adding decals on top of that like Graffitis ?
From what I know, the dirt layer should already be set as topflag and then nothing could be added on top without flickering issue or placing the graffity a few units away, which will look bad.

You guys know of a way to handle that ?

Thanks again for your time, have a nice day.
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AL64inthedark
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 PostPosted: Fri May 14, 2021 2:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

Trevor answered me on Discord, here's what he said
Quote:
technically yes, it will draw in dlist order so use "move triangle to end" to draw on top

I'm gonna try that. Very exciting
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 PostPosted: Fri May 14, 2021 2:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

My experience with this, is that it never works out...in practice I haven't seen much success with multiple decals.
 
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AL64inthedark
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 PostPosted: Fri May 14, 2021 3:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

Oh damn Shocked
Also, I played a lot of N64 games, but can't tell that a single game that did that.
If anyone knows any games who do, please tell us.
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AL64inthedark
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 PostPosted: Tue May 18, 2021 8:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

Well, I decided to make an opaque texture with the dirt included in it so I can add decals on the wall.
3x(64x32x4CI). It adds more tris and textures, but less transparency to handle.

Still would love if someone could make multiple layer works Very Happy

Opaque (new) on the left, right is the old one with the dirt as IA.
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Trevor
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 PostPosted: Wed May 19, 2021 2:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

ok, Ill answer here too since I also said it needed testing.

but to further expand my answer the z-buffer decides what draws on top.
When 2 z values are equal the blender cannot decide which to put first - however, the reason it does draw something (usually part of 1 tri then part of another) is because no 2 z values are actually equal (unless they share the same vertices too (which is ALWAYS recommended for decals)) since perspective correction and view angle etc.

So, to draw 2 triangles on top of each other you either need to disable the Z-buffer (like guns) or use the decal flag.

Decal also has the special feature of only drawing on co-planner surfaces (bullet holes will not float in the air)

Decal checks that its z value is the same as that of the "sub-surface" and then draws itself.

If you make another decal, it does the same check and because the decal itself doesn't use the Z-buffer, it should draw in order of display list.

You are asking for an in game example? just shoot any decal and you will have 2 decals overlapping (some will go "under" the decal but most work)
another text is shoot the ground, then drop a mine, the scorch mark will overlap the bullet hole - scorch marks always seem to be on top so they might be using a special z override function for decals)

So, in your above example, you could try adding the dirt then the lights, as always make sure they are co-planner (vertices are shared) to try and avoid any flickering - however, large decals are a separate issue.
i.e. you cannot use decals for shading since any distortion will be noticeable. decals must have the allowance to not exist. if they MUST exist, move to cut and primary triangles.
Again, caveats, if you want to add definition to a baked shadow (eg, AO under an object) then decals should be fine since a slight flicker will not destroy the whole scene.

There are many more but basically suck it and see. We do know that you cannot "save triangles" by using a decal shadowmap - it will flicker all the time.

Trev
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