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[Map] Library: Oct 10th, 2010
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Wreck
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 PostPosted: Sun Feb 28, 2010 6:10 pm    Post subject: [Map] Library: Oct 10th, 2010 Reply with quote Back to top




I have pretty much the entire Library clipped. Only thing left is all of the pillars in the big Basement room. I'll have to go over them and colour certain ones better, but the Stack is probably complete now. Thanks to Sub's setup convertor, most of the props are already in. You'll notice that I ported the secret slider door and the cell door. With some setting changes, I got the secret doors to rise correctly. At first I couldn't get underneath them, so needed to make some tweaks. Also needed to modify a few of the pads. A couple doors were off ever so slightly, which resulted in seeing closed portals along the edges. Two of them could also be seen through the wall as they moved, so had to shift and resize a touch. It should all be good, now. Also need to adjust weapons and armour to suit PD's format.

Here's where we discuss this map...

I think most of us would agree, that the Basement would be far too small as an independent level in Perfect Dark. Between the inclusion of simulants and the need for bases, it's just too tiny. Without just the Basement, would we also not need just the Stack? It feels more appropriate to me, to focus on the map as a whole. Instead of using two or three slots for different sections of the stage, we only use one. The Library; no more, no less. We could test Stack and Basement at some point, but I have a feeling that they won't play as well using PD.

That said, if there is no Stack and/or Basement, are the cell door dividers necessary? Their original intention was to block off the upper and lower levels. In Library, they were removed. However, I actually think that they add something. If we keep them in, we'd set the appropriate flags on them. Allow players and sims to see through, shoot through, and even toss projectiles through them. They would slide open, much like the cell doors in Bunker ii. I already have this in place temporarily, and quite like it. It doesn't slow down the action, as they open at a good pace and don't put a halt to fire fights. I feel as though they add a completeness to the map.

An interesting fact: In Library, there are no "special" weapons down in the Basement area. (as a special in PD, it'd be ID's F3 and F8, in a four weapon, one shield setup) You can only find them up in the Stack. Should this remain, or do we put a special down there? If it's easier to camp in that area, does placing the most valuable weapon and ammo up top help to draw them out?
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Last edited by Wreck on Sat Oct 09, 2010 8:33 pm; edited 1 time in total
 
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SubDrag
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 PostPosted: Sun Feb 28, 2010 7:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

Looks great! Without the PD HUD/weapons, it seems identical to GE.

I'd personally still like to see Library/Basement, you can still play against humans only, so basement has some worth. Plus it's my favorite multi level in GE, and I can't stand stack.

What did you do to get the vertical secret doors working? Might be worthwhile for others in future maps.
 
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Wreck
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 PostPosted: Sun Feb 28, 2010 7:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

There was two things I think that were needed, though it might've just been the one. At 0x88 in a GE Door block, there is the "Unknown" value. I replaced what the Editor gave me for the converted doors with the value in the original door. Also, at 0x98 in a GE door, there's some kind of special flag. For these risers, it was 0004. Seems to be used on the Car Park doors in PD, as well. Could be the "Door Moves Past Frame" flag.

I hear what you're saying about Basement. It actually can be rather fun against human players. Throwing Knives make for great matches. Funny thing, I used to prefer Stack over Library and Basement. Maybe splitting them up isn't such a bad idea. Everyone has a personal favourite out of the three. I'm just concerned with how chaotic Basement could get with so many people running around in it. There's also the lack of weapons available in such a small space.
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Wreck
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 PostPosted: Sun Feb 28, 2010 8:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

Another thing I was wondering about. You know how in PD you can pop up through the backside of a ramp while traveling underneath it? Right now, you can do this with the two ramps up in the Stack. Should we keep it like that, or should we add a vertical tile to prevent you from doing so? I haven't tested to see if that'd work, but I would imagine it should. It just seems kind of like a glitch to me.

Update: I've included the other two respawn points from Basement's setup in the Library, which brought the total up to ten. But since the minimum should be twelve, I created two brand new spawns. They're both in locations where spawns previously didn't exist, and seem to fit in nicely. I also changed the exported pads from the original converted setup from 0x3C to 0xC sized. I'll likely end up doing the same with weapons. (Edit: changed the weapons and ammo crate pads over)

Following the same exact weapon arrangement from the Library setup, I've copied it down so that it should be identical. I'm still not sure about the shields, though. They remain where the armours were in GoldenEye, but would benefit from having extra ammo crates thrown in around them. Otherwise, when using a custom weapon set, only the gun will be there. They're using ID's F4 and F9.
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 PostPosted: Mon Mar 01, 2010 12:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

Personally, I think Stack and Basement should stay. I never really liked Library or Basement in GE, but did like Stack. I guess it comes down to whether or not there is enough room for everything needed for PD. Felicity was pretty small, but played better than most of the PD arenas. Basement might be pushing it, but I think Stack can work. (I'm also wondering if this should be one of our text fixes, changing it to "Stacks." I tried to find one mention of "stack" for library stacks, and couldn't.)

I do like the idea of leaving the divider in place, provided it opens fast enough to not slow down the gameplay.
 
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Wreck
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 PostPosted: Mon Mar 01, 2010 12:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top



This is one of the cool parts. Seeing the new features in PD come to life in GoldenEye's maps. I added in six hills, though they may be changed. In my opinion, hills are better when they are a decent size, and offer multiple routes to it. I don't like the tiny room hill that only has one entrance. It can be too easy to defend, especially if you have partners with you. The room in the screenshot would make a really good one. You can just picture some intense battles between the pillars. Even people from up above could get in on the action by blasting through the floor grate.

It definitely seems as though each variation of the map should be kept in PD. I think a few extra weapon sets would need to be included in the Basement setup, though. At least bringing it up from six to eight. There'd be too few as-is for a level full of humans and sims. Who knows, it could be so crazy that it'd make for tons of fun.

I don't know about changing the name of a map, though. The name "Stack" sounds alright. It's singular, so it represents one place. There's two levels, stacked ontop of each other. If there is a stack of magazines, than it is just one pile. But if there are stacks, than there is more than that. Guess you could argue that "Caves" should have been called "Cave". It doesn't sound as good, though. Maybe also why they went with "Stack" instead of the pluralized version.
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 PostPosted: Mon Mar 01, 2010 2:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

"Stack" doesn't refer to the fact that it is two places stacked on top of each other (if that was the case, Library and Stack would've been swapped), it's referring to a place: the stacks in the library. As I said, I can't find a single mention of "stack" being used to describe them, they're always called "stacks." There are a few terms that use stack singularly, but not for the area itself.
 
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 PostPosted: Mon Mar 01, 2010 4:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

I'm trying to add a couple of tiles to the back and side of a ramp in the Stack. It prevents you from popping up onto the ramp, like intended, but also keeps you from hopping off the side where those tiles are. They should be low enough, but it's not helping. I'll play around with it some more, but it isn't looking very promising.

Edit: I got it working better, but it still seems a little funky. If you walk along the edge of the ramp, you'll either "bump" a certain section, or else you'll fall off and land on the vertical tiles next to it, keeping you up in the air. Either way, it poses a bit of a problem. (actually, I'm still rubbing into an invisible wall in a small area, too)

DB: I see what you mean, looking up the term on Google. Even if it was a mistake, or personal choice by Rare, it's still a name, though. Think about the weird spellings of some names you've seen. A simple one would be John vs. Jon. Is it wrong to have an "H", or wrong not to have it? Graham vs. Graeme. Shawn vs. Sean. York vs. Yorke. A name can be spelled however you want it to be, really. I just wouldn't feel comfortable renaming a map. I also don't think I could ever get used to calling it "Stacks", either.
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 PostPosted: Tue Mar 02, 2010 1:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

It's probably best to just leave the ramps like they are in Complex, then. Walking through the back is a bit odd, but they probably did it intentionally to stop the bumping issue you mention. Actually, I didn't even know you could walk through the ramps until recently, I don't think I ever tried it before.
 
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 PostPosted: Tue Mar 02, 2010 8:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

Looks great, Wreck! Awsome work!
 
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 PostPosted: Wed Mar 03, 2010 1:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

I think I'm going to end up changing the weapon ID's in the Library. There's really two reasons why. The first is that there are no special weapons located in the Basement. None at all. The other... You can actually collect every special weapon in just over ten seconds. It's literally like playing a game of connect-the-dots. Even the Stack isn't much better as-is. Three of the four specials are in the exact same position. They should be spread apart a little better. I'm sure most of you would agree that grouping the most powerful weapons all strung together in one section of the map isn't really a good thing.

Thanks, Kode-Z. Sub really deserves a ton of credit. He's been able to rescale the maps, round the points, connect the rooms together, and reformat it to PD's style. And with the clipping tools, it's really very easy. Not to mention converting the setup file, which saves a lot of time. If it weren't for him, we'd never be this far along.
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 PostPosted: Thu Mar 04, 2010 10:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

Wreck wrote:
Thanks, Kode-Z. Sub really deserves a ton of credit. He's been able to rescale the maps, round the points, connect the rooms together, and reformat it to PD's style. And with the clipping tools, it's really very easy. Not to mention converting the setup file, which saves a lot of time. If it weren't for him, we'd never be this far along.


*Slaps wrist*

Sorry, Sub - didn't mean to leave you out!

What's the process for rescaling the maps, and can ALL the GE maps potentially be ported? This is definitely gonna be an interesting few months coming up! Wink
 
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 PostPosted: Thu Mar 04, 2010 2:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

Check out the bgfile post, essentially you rescale bgfile in GE to folder, then rescale portals, export portals to txt file, close, go to PD mode, import portals from txt file, export bgfile (of the one rescaled), then do "Clip All Tris" from room positions mode (then fix whatevers needed), and also in Tools -> Extra Tools -> PD Tools -> Convert GE Setup to PD to open GE Setup converted for PD
 
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 PostPosted: Thu Mar 04, 2010 6:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

It's really a very simple process using the Editor. I like to clip on a tile-by-tile basis, which may sound crazy to some. It helps to know what I need, what I don't, and what I can optimize manually. Might take more time, but I figure it's worth it.

Only request I have for anyone working on GoldenEye map porting, is to keep it underwraps for the time being. Showing off some props, weapons or characters is one thing, but an entire background is another. It'd be nice to get some stuff finished up, create a preview patch, and put up a video of it being played on YouTube. That'd really be the first teaser of what we're now capable of. Hope everyone agrees with the idea. Dragonsbrethren and I are planning to test a few things out online and get some footage of it being played. Might not be for a few weeks still, but that just gives people more time to work on perfecting the GE ports.
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 PostPosted: Thu Mar 04, 2010 6:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

Should prob pull my youtube teaser Embarassed It's probably a good precursor to you're in action multi video anyways though.
 
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