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Peter Meter
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 PostPosted: Thu Mar 26, 2020 1:52 am    Post subject: Multiplayer levels Reply with quote Back to top

Hello everyone, I just made an account 'cause I see there's so much Goldeneye experts here and I'm sure someone will be able to help me. Thank you everybody for all the great work you've done all this years, especially geniuses like Wreck, Subdrag, Zoinkity and many others. Goldeneye is my favorite game since I was 7, and now I'm 30 Laughing Still is, I think it always will be. I always wanted to be able to play all of the goldeneye solo levels in mutiplayer with my friends, I know about Goldeneye Legends by MultiplayerX for example but there's the 4 of us, and most of the levels on the mentioned patch are only playable in 2..
We play on 1964 emulator.

Can you please give me some suggestions on how to make my wish come true?I also have a few questions about some levels:

1. Is there a way to play Aztec, Control, Frigate, Dam, Streets, Depot, Jungle in 4 players without experiencing the black spots aka not rendered places? (Full levels I mean, and I don't care if there's a lack of objects and if the framerate drops as long as it's playable). If that is possible, how can I accomplish that? I know it has something to do with memory allocation..

2. Is it possible to fix the Statue level in multi so there are no black spots? I played Wreck's multi pack and Cradle is 10 times better than the original for example

3. How do you cut out part of a map to make a smaller level like Dam frontzone? Maybe some tutorial which I should see?

4. I was trying to make some solo levels playable in multi with the GE Setup editor, and while switching some stage's skies in 21990, I noticed some stages have only skies for 1P, others for all 4P etc.. but while editing skies in Wreck's multi pack and other patched roms I noticed differences in the number of skies in certain levels. I mean in some cases Library has four editable skies, but Bunker i has one, while in other roms Bunker has four skies and Library has one. It just confuses me.. Does anyone know why's that? Furthermore, in the old tutorial Solo Stage to Multi is shown how to put Runway in the place of Archives multiplayer, but the editor was different, it was an old version where you could write wich sky you wanted in every level, and writing something in the "default sky box" for each player would actually do the thing. Now when I put Runway in place of Archives mp there is no sky option for 4 P in archives so I get the black sky. Why isn't the sky option editable for 4P in every level anymore, or maybe it is but I'm just too dumb?

Sorry I asked a lot all at once, but if I don't write it right away it slips my mind, thanks in advance, looking forward to your comments, kindest regards


Petar
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Sogun
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 PostPosted: Thu Mar 26, 2020 2:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

Hello Peter Meter and welcome to the forums.

1.- You will need Carnivorous' FOOTSEPS patch in order to increse available memory from 4 MB to 7 MB (this means the rom will only load with an Expansion Pak). Most of the Solo levels display too many vertices on screen and it's just impossible for the N64 to storage all those vertices x4 times with the default RAM.

2.- I managed to make Statue 4P playable without blackouts or texture issues with the 4 MB. Performance on console for 4P isn't optimal but drawing distance can be reduced considerably to make it work a lot better (I used same sky settings than the Solo Mission). These are the memory allocations:

-ml0 -me0 -mgfx70 -mvtx100 -mt605 -ma361

3.- You can either copy the solo setup as multiplayer setup and then change a door so it won't open (like Rare did for Facility and Archives multis) or be more agressive and remove parts of the map directly (I would just remove clipping and portals to those rooms since having empty rooms won't let you import back the changes to the rom).

4.- To change the skies go to the 'Game Configurator' and 'Stage options'. In the top right corner you'll see Small sky#, Small sky ID, Normal Sky# and Normal Sky Id.
Small sky is for very simple skies with few settings (you shouldn't bother with it since there are only 3 slots).
Normal sky is what you should look at. There are 0x2F interchangeable slots. In 'Normal Sky #' select a slot that you don't need (like #24 which is sky for Citadel 1P which isn't used), then in 'Normal Sky Id' select the sky that you want (for example, 000000FA Caves 2P if you want that stage to have sky in 2P mode). You'll have to change slots for 3P and 4P too. Now you can edit the sky settings individually for each amount of players.

Hope that helps.
 
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Peter Meter
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 PostPosted: Thu Mar 26, 2020 5:37 am    Post subject: Multiplayer levels Reply with quote Back to top

I can't thank you enough for such a fast and accurate reply. I will give a try to all of your suggestions then I'll let you know how it went.

After patching the rom with footsteps patch, do I have to make adjustments to the memory allocations of the levels so they could display all the vertices? Because if that's necessary, I don't really know how much I need to increase/decrease a value and which values needs to be altered in the first place.

Thanks again Sogun!
 
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 PostPosted: Thu Mar 26, 2020 6:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

I haven't worked with the Footsteps patch myself so I don't know how much can the allocations be increased. Unless someone else can give an answer you'll have to test it yourself.

For 4 MB, I do the following:
-Lower -mt and -ma to reasonable levels just for the level to load. I don't mind texture corruption or blackpouts. I just need a starting point. Setting both to 200 or 300 shold be fine. Setting the spawn points to low-poly small areas with reduced visibility would help too. If the level doesn't load try rising the -ma since it's the one that controls the amount of vertices that are shown on screen.

-Figure the minimum -mt allocation to avoid texture corruption. You'll have to test with 'The Living Daylight (Flag Tag)' scenario with 'Rockets' as weapons and Ourumov, Boris, Baron Samedi and Helicopter Pilot as playable characters as this is the configuration that uses most textures. Then you'll have to start a game, pick up all the weapons, see their ammo icons, shoot different surfaces so you trigger all kinds of bulletholes and press R to show the aiming crosshair.

-Then increase -ma until there are no blackouts. For 4MB I usually aim for -mt and -ma to amount 900. If there are still blackouts that means we need to increase -ma even further. If the level doesn't load that means we have exceeded the total allocations. When that happens (I don't think you'll have this problem with the extra RAM), figure out the max amount of -ma needed to load the map and the lower -mgfx in order to get extra memory for more -ma. Notice that each point that you lower -mgfx you can increase -ma in TWO points. But don't abuse this since low -mgfx can lead to freezes and crashes during gameplay especially when someone is shooting. As a final test, when you are sure there aren't any blackouts, make all 4 players spin while shooting relentlessly.


It's a slow process and sometimes you'll get weird results like it seems the music is missing some instruments or the level loads and next time you try it doesn't. But with the extra memory I think you'll have no problems.
 
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Peter Meter
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 PostPosted: Fri Mar 27, 2020 4:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

So, for now the situation is as follows:

1. I patched the rom with footsteps patch succesfully, only thing I noticed is that if you delete debug data in Subdrag's editor the patched rom won't load levels at all, so I never delete unneeded debug data. Can this be a problem, never deleting unneeded data?

2. Haven't tried the Statue yet, tough I'm sure your method will work.


3. Will try cutting parts off a map in another moment, didn't have time to try yet.

4. Figured out about the sky options, everything's clear, it's awesome, I was right thinking it was me being dumb Surprised

I managed to insert a Dam setup file in Egyptian's Ump. I wanted to replace other Ump setups, ex. Cradle, Complex and other smaller setup files, but couldn't do it 'cause the program said something like "the compressed file is ??? bytes, should be smaller than ??? bytes", so I tried with other setups until I succeded with Egyptian. Is it possible to bypass that limitation by inserting multi level from visual in 21990, or this shouldn't be done because the setup file would be too big and maybe could mess something up?

However, after replacing the Egypt Ump with Dam, and making all the necessary adjustments shown in the solo to multi tutorial, I loaded the level (I always load in 4 players) with the Egyptian's 4P values (-mgfx110 -mvtx100 -mt350 -ma400). The stage loaded but texture was corrupted on characters, radar and sky. Increasing -mt to 500 resolved the issue.

Issues: When walking along the dam, which is very long, the charachters slow down a lot in some places, sometimes they speed up a little but never how they should. As soon as I enter a smaller room they become fast as they should be. The graphic of the level (especially the distant ones) and movements in general are poor, the level is very big so I'm not surprised, but can I somehow improve the performance?
By the way I tried rising the -ma to 900 and higher, didn't notice any difference, same with -mt, I tried many combinations of these two values, nothing changed. Never touched the -mgfx, but tried setting -mvtx to 50, and 200. I didn't really know what I was doing but gave it a try anyway. Any ideas maybe?
 
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Wreck
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 PostPosted: Fri Mar 27, 2020 7:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

You shouldn't need to use any of the delete debug type options when using the Footsteps patch. The J text files should already be removed, and Carnivorous repurposed certain areas in the 21990 where debug data was previously for new features. Deleting it will likely mess up the game.

Dam has a lot going on in the exterior areas, especially by the water area (where you bungee jump off). You won't be able to help framerate with any memory settings, unfortunately. There's just a ton of polygons being rendered, especially in 4-Players. You'd need to either delete out pieces of background, or rooms entirely. But the special visibility commands for Dam are complex, which makes it tricker to edit the level.
 
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Sogun
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 PostPosted: Sat Mar 28, 2020 10:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

Performance issues might also be due bad rom settings on your emulator. Most of them use the CIC to identity the rom and change the settings automatically but when you edit the rom the CIC changes and the Emulator uses default settings that result in bad emulation. Loading an unmodified GoldenEye rom, checking the rom settings and copying them to the hacked rom should improve performance and avoid most crashes and freezes.

These is the configuration for Project64 v1.6. Do 'Options' -> 'Settings' -> 'Rom settings':
CPU core style: Recompiler
Self-modifying code Method -> Change Memory & Cache
Memory size: 4 MB (But set it to 8MB because you are using the Footsteps patch. If you weren't using it it really makes no difference)
Advanced Block Linking: Off
Default Save type: Use First Used Save Type.
Counter Factor: 2 (But if you set it to 1 you'll get way better performance at the cost of incorrect timing, like guns shooting faster).
[V] Large Compile Buffer
[V] Use TLB
[V] Registre caching
[ ] Delay Sl Interrupt
[ ] SP Hack (it's checked in the original GoldenEye but the Goldfinger 64 rom wouldn't load if this was on. I think it's because of the use of the extra memory but we were using something different than the Footsteps patch at the time so I'm not sure which one is the correct setting).
[ ] RSP Audio Signal

Rememeber to reload the rom to apply the changes. You'll have to do the rom settings every time you make a change.


Another way to increase performance is to reduce Far Fog (drawing distance) in the sky settings. If you use different skies for any amount of players you can make the Far Fog accordingly. You might need to reduce it a lot for 4P but not as much for 2P.
Removing props also helps performance.

And lastly there's the 1964 60FPS emulator that makes GoldenEye run mostly at 60 FPS even with very complex levels.
 
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Wreck
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 PostPosted: Sat Mar 28, 2020 3:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

Yes, good point, Sogun. Multiplayer levels are typically pretty minimal when it comes to props. Mostly just doors (which can close portals between rooms) and glass are used, but in some cases metal crates and fuel barrels are added for cover or hazards. So if you haven't taken out unnecessary objects, it would be beneficial to do so.

As for setups being too large to replace others... How are you trying to import them into your ROM? This should not be an issue. It was with really old versions of the Editor (I'm talking practically ancient by now), but all current builds shift data and tables to allow for bigger files, and you can even extend the ROM size if necessary.
 
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 PostPosted: Sun Mar 29, 2020 5:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

Sogun wrote:
You will need Carnivorous' FOOTSEPS patch in order to increse available memory from 4 MB to 7 MB (this means the rom will only load with an Expansion Pak).

I strongly disagree - beginners should not use the footsteps patch as it's the equivalent of throwing a child into the deep end of a pool. It's overly complicated and makes assumptions that the user has already made some levels with the editor. For beginners they should use zoinkity's expansion pak patch with a retail NTSC ROM - until they find themselves limited by action blocks.

Peter Meter wrote:
1. I patched the rom with footsteps patch succesfully, only thing I noticed is that if you delete debug data in Subdrag's editor the patched rom won't load levels at all, so I never delete unneeded debug data. Can this be a problem, never deleting unneeded data?

Are you using 4.2+? If your editor is 4.2+ it should have shown a warning before attempting to remove debug data.
 
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Peter Meter
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 PostPosted: Mon Mar 30, 2020 7:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

Sogun wrote:
Performance issues might also be due bad rom settings on your emulator. Most of them use the CIC to identity the rom and change the settings automatically but when you edit the rom the CIC changes and the Emulator uses default settings that result in bad emulation. Loading an unmodified GoldenEye rom, checking the rom settings and copying them to the hacked rom should improve performance and avoid most crashes and freezes.

These is the configuration for Project64 v1.6. Do 'Options' -> 'Settings' -> 'Rom settings':
CPU core style: Recompiler
Self-modifying code Method -> Change Memory & Cache
Memory size: 4 MB (But set it to 8MB because you are using the Footsteps patch. If you weren't using it it really makes no difference)
Advanced Block Linking: Off
Default Save type: Use First Used Save Type.
Counter Factor: 2 (But if you set it to 1 you'll get way better performance at the cost of incorrect timing, like guns shooting faster).
[V] Large Compile Buffer
[V] Use TLB
[V] Registre caching
[ ] Delay Sl Interrupt
[ ] SP Hack (it's checked in the original GoldenEye but the Goldfinger 64 rom wouldn't load if this was on. I think it's because of the use of the extra memory but we were using something different than the Footsteps patch at the time so I'm not sure which one is the correct setting).
[ ] RSP Audio Signal

Rememeber to reload the rom to apply the changes. You'll have to do the rom settings every time you make a change.


Another way to increase performance is to reduce Far Fog (drawing distance) in the sky settings. If you use different skies for any amount of players you can make the Far Fog accordingly. You might need to reduce it a lot for 4P but not as much for 2P.
Removing props also helps performance.

And lastly there's the 1964 60FPS emulator that makes GoldenEye run mostly at 60 FPS even with very complex levels.


I use the 1964 emulator, and the rom settings menu doesn't look the same as in Project 64, so there are some different available options in certain cases. I usually don't have any performance issues, just in the Dam multi I've made but mostly in the open space on the actual dam, but Wreck explained the reason so I won't bother much with it. I made the level to bare bones and haven't added anything besides the spawns and the weapon pickups, so no objects in level. I'll try with reducing the far fog, I already had to do that with Jungle. I was making Jungle multi and just copy-pasted the sky from Jungle 1P to Caverns multi which I replaced with the Jungle setup, and I was getting this strange black space in the distance. But lowering far fog fixed it. Thanks


Wreck wrote:
Yes, good point, Sogun. Multiplayer levels are typically pretty minimal when it comes to props. Mostly just doors (which can close portals between rooms) and glass are used, but in some cases metal crates and fuel barrels are added for cover or hazards. So if you haven't taken out unnecessary objects, it would be beneficial to do so.

As for setups being too large to replace others... How are you trying to import them into your ROM? This should not be an issue. It was with really old versions of the Editor (I'm talking practically ancient by now), but all current builds shift data and tables to allow for bigger files, and you can even extend the ROM size if necessary.


Hello Wreck, at that point I was importing the level as described in the Multi to Solo tutorial by Subdrag, I opened the uncompressed Dam setup, and under "quick convert level" I chose Complex (later tried with Cradle and Library). After doing the changes I wanted I tried to quicksave the rom and a text box appeared saying the file is too big. But after reading your comments I checked my version of the editor and it's 3.0, so that would be the problem. I don't know why I downloaded the old version, at least now I know what I've messed up. Thanks for the help
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Carnivorous wrote:
I strongly disagree - beginners should not use the footsteps patch as it's the equivalent of throwing a child into the deep end of a pool. It's overly complicated and makes assumptions that the user has already made some levels with the editor. For beginners they should use zoinkity's expansion pak patch with a retail NTSC ROM - until they find themselves limited by action blocks.
Are you using 4.2+? If your editor is 4.2+ it should have shown a warning before attempting to remove debug data


I took your advice and downloaded the expansion pak patch, it's indeed what I was looking for. Unfortunately I downloaded the 3.0 version so no warning appeared, I will download the latest version of the editor. Thank you
 
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