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SATURN_81
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 PostPosted: Tue Sep 26, 2017 11:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

Dam is a level that seems to stall the progress of this GE-X mod. I would like to see the most current images of the progress of this level published for GE-X.

I believe that this level does not fit PD in its longitudinal part. I do not know if someone will have thought of a drastic solution like the one I'm going to say. it would be to catch the two ends of the dam and bend them in such a way that the arch of the dam would be more pronounced. perhaps this way can fit the level better longitudinally.
 
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MRKane
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 PostPosted: Tue Sep 26, 2017 2:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

It only didn't fit by a tiny amount, and a few shifted verticies wouldn't be noticed by the player. The biggest issue was cutting it up in such a way that the visibility worked - something that we couldn't do previously as the editor didn't respect vertex colours and I really didn't have the "feeling" for correctly cutting up a map.

Post Goldfinger 64 I might just be able to make this work. I'll try to find the time to have a little look seeing as nobody is working on it Smile

EDIT: well I didn't get very far there, hit a "Invalid objton8 exe" error upon trying to export the scaled FBX rooms. Will try to figure this one out - but if anyone has suggestions I'm always ears Wink
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pavarini
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 PostPosted: Tue Sep 26, 2017 6:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

MRKane wrote:
EDIT: well I didn't get very far there, hit a "Invalid objton8 exe" error upon trying to export the scaled FBX rooms. Will try to figure this one out - but if anyone has suggestions I'm always ears ;)


Have you tried following the setup guide here? http://www.shootersforever.com/forums_message_boards/viewtopic.php?t=7081
 
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MRKane
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 PostPosted: Tue Sep 26, 2017 6:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

I was following that, and after lots of file shufflings and jiggery pokery I've got it going as far as "Error running objtoan8.exe, is the FBX SDK installed? Check out objtoan8 release folder for instructions."

I've begun to wonder if it has to do with the editor being at the c:/ location and not under Programme files or something. Probably doesn't help that I've the machine processing for work in the background. I'll keep trying!
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pavarini
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 PostPosted: Tue Sep 26, 2017 6:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

MRKane wrote:
I was following that, and after lots of file shufflings and jiggery pokery I've got it going as far as "Error running objtoan8.exe, is the FBX SDK installed? Check out objtoan8 release folder for instructions."

I've begun to wonder if it has to do with the editor being at the c:/ location and not under Programme files or something. Probably doesn't help that I've the machine processing for work in the background. I'll keep trying!

Are you able to run ObjToAn8.exe externally? I'm thinking you may lack some redist required for it.
 
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MRKane
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 PostPosted: Tue Sep 26, 2017 6:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

Spot on! I'd not thought of that! So it turns out that the machine was running an ever-so-different version of VS2008, and after a quick upgrade to SP1 I appear to have managed to export the level as an fbx. As a quick question:
-What were the level bounds for PD?
-What is the view distance bounds for PD (I remember this being a bit of a deal breaker)?
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Trevor
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Location: UK, Friockheim OS:Win10-Fast PerfectGold:Latest

 PostPosted: Wed Sep 27, 2017 10:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

Level bounds should be +/-32767 since scale is locked at 1.

If PD is anything like GE in the way visibility works, it will need scaled since GE was unstable greater than 16000. (Dam used a scale to get 72000, but scale adds bias to the z-buffer)

However, since I have not done any testing in PD, this is all speculative (except bounds which is a hardware limitation of being 16bit)

Trev
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MRKane
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 PostPosted: Wed Sep 27, 2017 1:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

Those are numbers I can work with! I had a rough idea bout fitting it correctly, and looking at it in blender am inclined to think that with a little bit of artistic warping I can get this to work. I'd say all the portals will need redone however, so the only place to start is...at the start I guess.
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Wreck
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 PostPosted: Wed Sep 27, 2017 2:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

Sorry I have not responded about this yet. My mind has been focused elsewhere (outside of GE/PD modding). Dam is so complex, that even considering redoing the portals seems like a whole other can of worms. I think it best if as minor of changes as possible can be made. Shifting the map, cutting out small pieces of cosmetic background details, and possibly moving the island a bit closer. The more areas that can be left untouched, the better. Also, maintaining the same room count, even if some may effectively be removed, to keep visibility commands in line.
 
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MRKane
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 PostPosted: Wed Sep 27, 2017 6:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

Actually I've hit a totally different issue: The editor can't get past the textures stage of the importing of a new level, it keeps on crashing out and I'm a bit lost as to why.

So the process:
-Convert>Model file to level and add textures
-Select textures.txt
-Select base rom
-Select output rom name
...and that's where it locks up and crashes.

So I'm using the Dam textures exported from the editor along with the fbx of the Dam level. Oddly enough a few of them are 128x16. Fixed those, but still the same issue. I'm wondering if I've kicked the lid off of a bug here with the V3 editor. It's annoying as I can't check my work in process.

That all said, Wreck:
My "master plan" was to use the base level and go through the portals and see about setting them up in a more PD oriented kind of way (grid layout for instance) and do away with much of the special visibility calls as this only got me so far the last time I attempted to do this, but proved to be a broken approach in the long run.
It was a trivial task to bring the level within bounds, now that I've got the model it should be a pretty straight forward operation cutting it up provided I can test changes as I make them. In saying that - I don't expect it to be quick as it's very big, and probably prone to innate little issues.
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Trevor
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 PostPosted: Thu Sep 28, 2017 1:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

Try pressing cancel when it asks for textures.txt.
Since you have no new textures you don't need this, all the texture filenames are recognised by PG and no textures are injected into rom.

That should solve any texture problems.

I know for a fact this works with objects as I do it all the time.

Trev

-Convert>Model file to level (already added textures)
-Press cancel
-Select model

Now you have a GE format level
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MRKane
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 PostPosted: Thu Sep 28, 2017 7:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

Edit of my prior post, and deleted everything else as it was superfluous. I got the editor running (finally) and followed the hint not to import the texture files...and it's working.

So far I've done up to the gate where the player shoots the locks off with only one graphical glitch that I've noticed so far (and this might become an issue later), but the essential process has been to rebuild the rooms, portals, and clipping and integrate sections in such a way that the game isn't calling massive extra visibility lists but is instead setting up the way that PD appears to be setup (which I can only assume is the "correct" way). I don't know when the Dam was in game development, if it was first (thus a bashed together collection of ideas and methods) or if it was the crazy magnum opus of map design. Either way: it's pretty nasty.

Graphical glitch: I don't know if this is caused by too many polygons, or a draw distance, but looking back from the gate towards the path that the truck travels there are missing polygons which are hidden by the game. That is some 5K polygons from my guess, so I can only hope that this is the issue. I guess we'll find out as I pick through it - the next problem will probably be the room limit actually.

I do have a suspicion that the visible distance in Perfect Dark may be a quarter of the maximum allowed size (just going off of what I'm seeing at the moment) but potentially it's also too many polys.
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Trevor
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 PostPosted: Mon Oct 02, 2017 11:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

A quarter of 64 is 16 which sounds very similar to GE (see "farfog")
To sumerise the section;
    Manually setting FarFog to 75000 causes large areas to crash the game while in smaller rooms causes a "fisheye-lense" effect in a small square window. gun and hud un-affected.
    Setting FarFog to 32000 shows screen normal, however dam still crashes.
    Dams default FarFog of 15000 and scale of 0.2 make far-clip 750m and as everyone knows, dam plays glitch free

    FarFog and FogScale need to be ballenced, while 32000 @ VisScale 1 is the same as 16000 @ VisScale 0.5, VisScale adds a bias to the z-Buffer.


This also reminds me to edit that post with regard to RSP 16bit limit since the 16bit limit was actually slightly incorrect, its 32bit fixed point s15.16.

PD uses a scale of 1, therefor only uses the integer portion of the RCP, GE however allows scaling to make use of the decimal portion for geometry.

From what I understand though, verticies are 16bit (s15) so this decimal portion of the RCP is only accessible from the result of matrix calculations.

Trev
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MRKane
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 PostPosted: Mon Oct 02, 2017 1:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

Hey Trevor - thanks for that! If I've understood what you've written, and the link provided, then I'm seeing many of these distances present in the map at the moment.

I've pretty much got a definite confirmation that there's a view limit, beyond which any tris are culled (at least on emulator, and I've no reason to believe that it would be any different on hardware) so excluding the possibility that there's some special flag we could use I'd say this level will need to be drastically reduced size-wise.

This would mean the lake area being reduced to about a third, and the height of the dam being reduced likewise. I don't see it affecting the actual playing of the dam, as for the better part the whole level is functional now, it's just going to be an artistic thing.

So, options:
a) Simply move everything into view. It'll compress and shorten the size of the water (which is good if we want a going to island objective) but will scrub off a lot of the "feel" of space and grandiose scenery
b) Forced perspective. I might use this on the platform for jumping off the dam as it's the only point you can see down it and it should work fine, but for the lake itself it could look a little funny and everything will obviously be "small"
c) A bit of both...which will probably be what it is in all honesty.

I'm open to suggestions here, but may have to rely on the technical minds as I'm just a guy tinkering with a chip on his shoulder afterall, and the final call may just be "whatever Wreck reckons will work best" Wink
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Trevor
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 PostPosted: Tue Oct 03, 2017 2:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Back to top

Just a quick post to say Ive read your post and am thinking about something but need to test in pd. might be next week before I get a chance if that's ok.

Trev
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