GoldenEye 007 Nintendo 64 Community, GoldenEye X, Nintendo 64 Games Discussion

[Dragonsbrethren]

ZHLT supports a command line parameter on the BSP program, -subdivide, which determines after how many units to clip brushes into separate tris. This is highly useful, because by default the compiling tools will spit out a lot more tris than are actually needed for your geometry. It also gives you far more control over where each tri will be created, allowing for easier clipping once the map is imported to GE.

In order to take advantage of this, add the -subdivide parameter after "$bspdir\$file" in the run map dialogue, followed by a large number. The default value is 240, don't be afraid to set it to something much higher than that. Try compiling the same map with and without this parameter, and see what a difference it makes! It's still not as much control as using an editor that supports working with the tris directly gives, but it is definitely an improvement over the default setting.

Last edited by Dragonsbrethren on Sat Mar 21, 2009 12:49 am; edited 2 times in total

[radorn]

Nice tip you have there.
It should also help make hammer maps faster.

[Wreck]

I'll have to give this a look. I recently downloaded Blender, but haven't spent much time reading tutorials. There's a good one in my list of favourites, which I'll definitely need to examine closely. The main reason I thought about trying it, was because Cyberen used the program to create a few custom maps for GoldenEye, during the earlier stages of the Visual Window in the GoldenEditor. I figured it might give more control over how many vertices and triangles there are in the model. Hammer is easy to use, but draws far more tris than necessary (judging by conversions).
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[Dragonsbrethren]

Blender's interface is...awful. Quite possibly the worst ever, short of manually typing tri coords into a text file. I honestly think I could learn to fly a 737 faster than I could learn Blender. I think it's pretty telling that I've read/watched dozens of tutorials, and still have no clue how to actually work the thing.

I certainly understand wanting more control over map geometry, I was having fun with DeleD but the fact that it exports so little into its obj files makes it no better than Hammer for me. I'd rather take easier map construction if I've got to do all of my room grouping and vertex coloring in the setup editor anyway.

[Wreck]

It's a shame that you no longer have your Office .rmf files kicking around. I'd have liked to have seen how that map would've faired with this -subdivide option. Clicking around in it with the GoldenEditor goes to show you just how many triangles it takes to build the level architecture. There's far, far more than you'd ever really need. With all of that being loaded into the memory, it's no wonder the mission took a bit of a hit, framerate wise. If this option could've reduced the amount of tris drawn, it may have improved the performance some.

Yeah, Blender wasn't getting me anywhere in the two hours I spent playing with it. I've heard that it takes some time to learn, but once you get used to it, you'll love it. That's if I can be patient enough to figure it out...
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[Dragonsbrethren]

Yeah, Office's geometry was a mess, it would be nice to see what an optimized version played like. Part of the problem with Office was that I wasn't aware the null texture could be used to fill in holes to the void - I thought they would still act as holes, and as a result I just null textured the entire exterior. The map probably never got optimized as much as it could have in the first place, even with the default subdivide value (240, adding this to the first post).

I've been considering recreating the map, but then I decide I'd rather reenvision it instead...and then I decide I'd be better off just working on a new map entirely.

[flopperr999]

Good work, DB. Should improve the speed of future Hammer maps. I'll be using it when I get around to finishing up my map that is....in the works. Like I said, good work

[radorn]

Heh, I tried blender too, but have the same problem as you.
The interface is terrible.
From what I gather, Blender is to 3d software what Emacs is to text processors. A monstruous piece of software that only a few mad wizards can really use. Too unixy.
I reckon many can make good use of it and it being free is a good thing, but it's just not very usable.
When some piece of software of a given known class (In this case, 3d editing, which is not a novelty) is so complicated that you can't even figure out the most basic things by just toying arround for a couple of hours at most, or with a little doc reading... well, you can say it's not well designed at all.

I believe that the process of understanding Blender ought to have more in common with getting a brainwash than with learning.

Wreck wrote:

I've heard that it takes some time to learn, but once you get used to it, you'll love it.

They also say that about Emacs. Ever tried Emacs?

[Wreck]

I'm actually curious about what this may do for Monkeyface's CS Map Pack. I know the levels already run pretty well, but if the background data can be reduced, it would help even more. With less triangles composing the architecture, he may even be compelled to use the GoldenEditor for RGB modifications, as well. I know that's something he was interested in, but knew it'd take a long time before. If this subdivide option can reduce the model data, there'd be far less vertices to colour in. It wouldn't hurt to give atleast one map a shot, if he still has the .rmf files handy. Best thing is, he can still use the original clipping files. Unless, of course, he decides on creating new (smaller) ones. Though, with the amount of work he's already put into it, the thought of doing the clipping all over again wouldn't sound too appealing...
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[Dragonsbrethren]

It looks like this may not work as well as I had hoped. The bsp has good geometry (as does the obj after exporting and viewing with Crafty), but once it's imported with the setup editor, the map is only slightly better than one compiled with the default settings. I don't get it, my Gasplant obj models had no changes made to them after importing. I tried importing Crafty's obj into DeleD and exporting from there, and had the same results with that obj.