GoldenEye 007 Nintendo 64 Community, GoldenEye X, Nintendo 64 Games Discussion

[Entropy Soldier]

So, i decided that, since portals gave me so much trouble during my last map, that I'd try to use them to my advantage in my next one...too bad they still gave me trouble.

Now, the layer concept entails that, you can have two rooms directly on top of one another as long as the portals linking them together are kept separate (not directly linking the same hallway to both rooms).

So, i made a test map to investigate the merit to my hypothesis. The general idea was that there would be three rooms, one in the middle connecting two that occupied the same space, with one an exact mirror of the other, rotated 90 degrees. One room had a temple like theme, and the other was textured like complex. The players would be able to enter one dimension through the center chamber, and switch dimensions by returning and going through a different door.

Well, as stated above, that didn't happen.

Though some pretty interesting things did occur:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6yjLLgk4OVw


As you can see, the player can randomly phase between dimensions, escape the clipping in random areas, and see the other players gunfire from the other dimension (though it can't hurt them, unless its an explosive)
The player can however, get hurt as long as the other player can see them, even if its not mutual.

I was actually thinking i could fix this by lowering one room by a single unit and re-clipping it, as I'm speculating the two separate dimensions clipping tiles are linked, thus making the game randomly decide what room you are in.

<i'll have geometry, portal, ips, and clipping files up shortly>

[HackBond]

I think the ramp aint got good clipping on it
_________________
Also known as Spyster or Nyxem
[Youtube]

[Decoy] Antenna | Control | Silo | Escape

[Entropy Soldier]

^ it does, you can go down it, and it connects to the clipping tile at its base ...
too bad the clipping tile at its base connects to the clipping tile under it, thus making going up from the ground floor impossible XD

(or, at least that's what I'm speculating)

[HackBond]

Im thinking you may need to put 2 different clipping tiles over each other

like if you put your hand ontop of your other hand, that your 2 levels of clipping in one area
_________________
Also known as Spyster or Nyxem
[Youtube]

[Decoy] Antenna | Control | Silo | Escape

[Entropy Soldier]

well, that's what I thought initially, but ended up with this :P

Each overlapping room is clipped, so there are two clipping sets in the same space...Not 100% sure how the engine works, but i remember clipping compound with a few portals missing and i still made it to the other rooms without a portal. so I'm thinking clipping connections do not factor in portal connections and thus, since the two separate clipping sets for each room are right next to each other, that the editor thought they were supposed to be connected, and this is the result.

So, i was thinking, if i lowered one room by a single unit (which hopefully isn't noticeable), the clipping tiles wouldn't "short circuit"and connect to each other.

[TimEh]

Yes this will work but there are certain rules one has to follow to make rooms not show up or flicker. Kinda what i was saying in the goldfinger thread about the bathroom overlapping. Well that night i got to work on a concept map that uses this layering for what i would say adding another dimention to multiplayer. Since ive just moved to a new place of residence i havnt been able to work on it. Originaly i just planed to release a quick map as a proof of concept but ive thought it out some more and plan to redo it and make it look decent. And ill release the setup/clip/bg as well so you guys can take it apart and see how it works. Give me a couple days to get settled in and ill get it up on the vault.

Ya the main problems will be with the clipping. It will be very difficult to connect the clipping if all the tris are the same, well hard to not''short circut'' as you say. Heres a suggestion. When in the editor, import the rooms so they are stacked on top of each other. Not right on top but like same X/Z but modified Y. Do the clipping for each room there. Then raise or lower just the edge of the clipping tile that should connect the 2 rooms. Reconnect all the tiles or stan convert. Inno what they do but they seem to link connected clip tris. Then in your roomexport.txt make all the rooms to have the same Y coord. Import with that file now and they will be ontop of each other. Just a faster way of doing it manualy. But still you clips will be separated. Alright i gotta go so ill do it fast. Just modify the Y cords of each clip tile to the Y thaat you want. dont redo connect or it will short circut.

and portals well... the rule is you cant have 2 over lapped rooms which the portals of those rooms can see eachother. weird thingas happen

hope that helps. if not ill have something you can take apart hopefully soon, and something you people still multiplaying will have to scratch your heads over

[Entropy Soldier]

Ah, i got inspired to do this by a post by someone explaining portals to me when i was doing them in compound a while back, and they stated that two rooms could exist on top of each other. ever since then its been on my list of things to do. funny how a similar statement inspired both of us to try the same thing.

Anyway, i get what your saying. By modifying they Y, the clipping tiles from opposite rooms wont match up and link together. Then you can put them back together once their already connected to the correct ones. one question though, wouldn't it be easier to modify the Z?

Well, you seem to have it down better than i do, so I'll wait for your release before trying anything else with this.

[bmw]

Hmmm....that's some strange behavior. In the Aztec midzone map I created (and have yet to release publicly), the vents I added to the level overlap with one of the rooms and those problems (with the exception of being able to see the others' gunfire) don't occur. And I'm fairly certain if I remember right that the clipping shares the same y-plane.

[TimEh]

ya Z and Y seemed to be used interchangebly from one 3d modeler to the next. thats why the editor can import with axis swap. but what i meant, and what i think you think i meant, is up down.

[TimEh]

Alright so i totaly redid the design. Its deffinatly not a great looking map but i was able to produce some of the harder effects that were troubleing me before. Ive sent it to subdrag. Should be up whenever. Ive included all the source files you would need to figure out whats done. And this should help you understand fully how portals work.

id like to see what other tricks could be used using these techniques

One big problem with this is that portals do not stay their exact size. on certain angles they will stretch and deform producing unwanted effects. It took a while to figure out how my new design would work, or if it would even work at all. hope this map helps

[TimEh]

uploading a vid now to youtube so you can see while the map isnt there. 2:12:06 remaining plus compress time...

[TimEh]

alright i compressed it. saved me 2 hours .

theres the link
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iWBki8JhE1s

ps: not sure how long the processing time takes. might not be availible right away.

[Dragonsbrethren]

It's done processing.

[Entropy Soldier]

Even your test maps are amazing >.<

Well, I'm glad we could get this working, i cant wait to see what other people will come up with.

Anyway, do you think something like this will work?

-Have an ascended opening that has no clipping in it, but does have a portal. Place this where two rooms exist so that both sides can be seen in both rooms. Now (if all goes according to plan) the players will be able to shoot through the portal into the other dimension.

-Same as above, but have 3 rooms on top of each other. Place three portals in the center, so that each room in connected to the other two. Now one side of the portal shots to a different room than the other one (hopefully)

[TimEh]

hmmm.... im not sure exactly what your thinking. But it seems from your video and from the tests i have done that the bullet being shot is calculated by what that one char can see. So as long as you can see through to the other dimention you can shoot through it. You could have a portal from your middle room looking to room one, and room 2 looking into the middle. and the person standing in the middle wouldnt see the player standing in room 2, but the player in room 2 could shoot the one in the middle i think. Which was something i wanted to try in mine. One way shootable walls. Where the body armor is, have a grate facing the weapon n ammo and shoot anyone comming in. The visibility editor would help with the one way stuff in that situation.

but i dont think thats what your talking about sooo

one thing that puzzels me in the video. at 1:58 you walk down a slope and the room changes. then you walk through were that slope is into the other room. how did you bypass the slope clip or were you outside the clip bounds at that point???