GoldenEye 007 Nintendo 64 Community, GoldenEye X, Nintendo 64 Games Discussion

[MultiplayerX]

Okay so I was tinkering around with clipping in GoldenEye and an idea I had for a level is at a standstill. The reason being is for ONE: Visibility is horrendous and you become trapped in a blacked out portal or something once you climb onto the islands clipping. TWO: I cannot figure out how to get the clipping to let you fall off and climb onto things no matter what I set it on LADDER, NORMAL, LADDER+KNEEL,etc.

WALK OFF PIER INTO WATER:
You can get off the platform into the water by walking off the LAST corner farthest to the RIGHT heading back towards the beginning of the level.

This was suppose to be a quick assembly because of my time restraints. lol I honestly don't know if this can be tweaked enough to make it a good multi map. HELP please........

Here's the beta run - CLICK THE PIC:


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[SubDrag]

Doing this sort of thing is complicated, especially since editor doesn't really handle Rares clipping reexported. Didn't someone make a patch going to the island though? You should use that?

Mark Kane's
http://goldeneyevault.com/viewfile.php?id=150

Ladder + Kneel makes it act like Ladder, and Kneel kneel, and normal clipping you can fall, but can't go up it I guess.

[MultiplayerX]

oh nice! i wonder if the boat would work in multi :O that would be cool. ill keep you posted
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[SubDrag]

Boat won't work, it's a modified tank.

[MultiplayerX]

hmmmmm so where do I add the boat to it tboat22 has no listing in the editor BAAAAADDD blackouts trying to find the island You cannot see it walking across the water so the boat is imperative now

EDIT: Yea there is no boat if I inject the binary file over tanks unless you can tell me where this file goes Sub I'm dead in the water Okay that was a bad joke but kind of witty eh?
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[Sogun]

Vertical clipping is very troublesome, hehe.

"Ladder+kneel" makes it act like a ladder, oddly "ladder" does nothing.
If you leave it as normal you can fall but not climb up UNLESS the clipping tiles are shorter than X units (I have to make a test for this, which is delaying my second tutorial ).

But even if vertical clipping seems alright on editor, sometimes it doesn't work fine and you can walk out of it and enter "ghost mode", or go into a black hole or do a space jump . What I do is slant a little the vertical clipping. Check Peach's Castle steps and you'll see it.

[MultiplayerX]

thanks SO!
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[MultiplayerX]

Okay I need one or two things from the programmer masters on this .

Either ONE: Sub or Sogun, can you check the clipping on this and see if it needs vertical etc adjustments and explain to me how you toggle the clipping?

OR

TWO: Sub could you double check in your disassembler if the editor is actually writing the TYPE bits correctly because they are all set correctly as Ladder+Kneel and you cannot crawl up or down 98% of what I adjusted however there is still that little place to the right you can squeeze off on to the water and another place where you can crawl up behind on to the island. All FLOOR clipping seems to work perfectly but there is no ladder access to the second floor of the tower. Also the gun turret is missing the gun now My GOD was RARE drunk the whole time they made this game? I guess after they were a huge success with goldeneye they realized they should take it more seriously. ?????


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[SubDrag]

I would take Mark Kane's clipping as is, and not touch it at all, not reexport it either. Perhaps the editor in project mode always reexports it, so you may not want to do project mode. The ladder + kneel does work, but you need to know the nuances of clipping. You can tell it works if you reimport, it'll be a different color in clipping mode.

[zoinkity]

If you want an example of different kind of falls you could refer to the GE conversions of Car Park and G5 Multi. I wrote a guide a long time ago but it probably isn't floating around any longer.

Always fall onto an edge to avoid slipping off the tile network. That's imperative in single player, as you'll immediately kick into 'lookup' mode, and that will lag the game to the point it will seem it locked.
Falling on edges is very easy when you're falling from a ledge onto a continuous surface.
If you're falling onto a wall edge though you'll have to make a lip. A 'wall' starts a certain proximity from the edge of a tile, and this distance is dependent on scale. You could always make a 'ghost tile' that is identical and placed one pixel above the actual floor tile, drop from the high elevation onto that, then 'drop' off it's edge onto the available flooring below. The issue is as long as you're on the ghost you can get back onto the wall above presuming it's under a certain elevation versus scale versus speed.

A ladder should be as close to vertical as possible. It's a special case bit of coding that handles a traversal and overrides the sine wave movement scheme--you're actually moving forward and back from your true position as you move, and it can be seriously problematic increasing the tolerances. Putting it at an angle can complicate things seriously.

Incidentally, a ladder doesn't work if the base or top happens to be too close to a wall edge either. With the exception of the 1st person display and your true position for purposes of position lookup, most of the code 'flattens' your position. This saves a lot of computing power and ensures you're always standing right on top of a tile, with the minor side effect of getting you shot and forcing vertical sections to be treated as continuous flat regions.

The bit about 1st person display: your perspective will display going up a ladder or falling from a ledge. Due to flattening, you're always at the top or bottom of any given rise. This is why those aren't really used in MP.

Also, the reason you can't see anything when you're at the island is the entire Dam area--the cliff faces, water, parts of the Dam itself, and the island--are only visible via special visibility. There aren't any portals to complain about. Blackouts occur in any MP situation along the Dam due to insufficient memory allocated to deal with pretty much the whole thing being loaded at once, and lag occurs because the RDP has to figure out how much of it is visible and render it. In fact, I'm not 100% certain that some of this forces past normal surface selection and it isn't preprocessed leading into window clipping.

Quote:

I guess after they were a huge success with goldeneye they realized they should take it more seriously. ?????

Where did that come from? You're having problems editing something that wasn't intended to be playable. Incidentally, they've been around since the 80s as Ultimate Play the Game and were wildly successful on the Spectrum; then the Stampers reverse-engineered the Famicom and made a game for it, presented the game to Nintendo, got a license, and shifted directly into NES; did system hardware development during the SNES period; then proceeded to put out a few arcade games and eventually designed GE. They were very successful, and GE wasn't the first N64 title.
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[Sogun]

I tried getting to the island ingame but I had no luck. I start in the Dam docks and I can "escape" and walk in the water (the ghost mode I was talking before) but after running in the water I get lost. XD

I extrated the files from the patched rom and opened them in Visual Editor. And it will need a lot of work to make Bond climb that ladder and go up to the top of the tower.

First of all the layout doesn't work fine in GE. I think in PD you can manage to jump from the ladder to the second floor, but not in GE since the clipping works very different.
http://i1185.photobucket.com/albums/z345/Sogunesp/GE_Island_laddertop_bg_zps896067a5.jpg
http://i1185.photobucket.com/albums/z345/Sogunesp/GE_Island_laddertop_cl_zps3f465361.jpg
Ladders in GE always have one way: you walk straight to the start of the ladder, climb it up, and continue walking straight when you are at the top.
In this Island ladder you walk straight to the start of the ladder, climb it up, then rotate 180 degrees at the top and jump off. You can't do that in GE, so the only solution would be changing the layout. I see two possible ways to do it:
-Shorten the ladder and expand the space in the tower so Bond can walk there (clipping should be redone for that too)
http://i1185.photobucket.com/albums/z345/Sogunesp/GE_Island_ladder_fix_zps1c14bd4b.jpg (paint power!)
-"Rotate" the ladder 180 degrees. Make it so Bond starts climbing the ladder from "behind". This would mean removing the ladder laterals, move it to the opposite side of the hole and shorten the ladder.
Both are feasible in editor, but the second one is the less abrupt and easier too.

A second issue I see is clipping itself.
It seems that clipping was done using the "create all room tris to clipping" feature in editor or something similar. Unfortunatelly that ladder isn't connected to the floor in a way clipping would work.
http://i1185.photobucket.com/albums/z345/Sogunesp/GE_Island_ladder_cl_connection2_zps0782f51c.jpg
http://i1185.photobucket.com/albums/z345/Sogunesp/GE_Island_ladder_cl_connection_zpsf4a84e35.jpg
So clipping needs to be redone in order to connect the floor with the start of the ladder.

Same with the top of the ladder. You need clipping that connects from the top of the ladder to the second floor.
http://i1185.photobucket.com/albums/z345/Sogunesp/GE_Island_laddertop_bg_zps896067a5.jpg
http://i1185.photobucket.com/albums/z345/Sogunesp/GE_Island_laddertop_cl_zps3f465361.jpg
Clipping in walls in unnecesary. And all clipping tiles that aren't connected are useless too.


If you want to try editing in Visual Editor I can give you some hints, but it will take some time to fix and it will be tedious, since you'll be moving vertices individually.

In Room Positions Mode you can delete tris just by selecting them and pressing delete key.
If you want to edit a tri you have to rightclick on it and go to "Open Vertice Menu". A new window will pop up and on top you can edit the coords of the vertices (each vertice has a color assigned).
You can select a tri and go to "Convert to clipping" -> "Convert selected tri to clipping tile" so you can have new clipping to edit.

In Clipping Mode rightclick on a tile and select "Modify Tri Points". This works as the Vertice Menu from before.
If the tris match perfectly the connections will be made automatically. Just be sure that the ladder is vertical.
If you want to remove connections righclik on one of the tiles and do "Remove Link Point", 0 is for red, 1 for green and 2 for blue. If you want to create a connection first select two tiles while holding ctrl and then do "Link Point to second tile" (you can select any color, but the order must be RGB counterclockwise or it won't work).
Connections should be done both ways (from tile A to tile B and from B to A). If you miss one then you can't walk from that tile to the other.

As I said it's very tedious. Editing background shouldn't take long in editor, but for clipping I recomend doing it in modeller.


Hope that helps.

PS: I just did some test for falls in vertical clipping and I discovered Bond can climb up obstacles 330 units tall (that's 3.30 meters or 11 feet, hehe). If it's 340 units I think he can also climb it with some luck.
So, to be sure, falls shoud be 350 units and higher.

[MultiplayerX]

Man thank you So! I always wondered how you edit the clipping and connect it. Think I'll just make me ladders and platforms from scratch and keep the ocean. Would take WEEKS to connect all of that stuff. Lol. The main issue is just getting off each platform and the ladder that climbs the tower. I'm planning on laying down some 27 presets of the Brown ammo crate across the entire ocean and make a uuummmm DECK that connects the pier to the island. think this would make the level feel like a real multiplayer map and it would just be for VISUAL. Removing collision you can just have an image prop that can be walked through.
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[MultiplayerX]

SubDrag wrote:

Doing this sort of thing is complicated, especially since editor doesn't really handle Rares clipping reexported. Didn't someone make a patch going to the island though? You should use that? Mark Kane's http://goldeneyevault.com/viewfile.php?id=150 Ladder + Kneel makes it act like Ladder, and Kneel kneel, and normal clipping you can fall, but can't go up it I guess.

WELL...Kanes clipping makes it impossible to reach the island in multi so I guess I'm on my own. lol Spent 20 minutes trying to find it and hugged the edge of the level :O
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[MultiplayerX]

Uuuugggghhhh yea not happening Kanes clipping was designed to work in Dam's COMPLETE setup My Statue Park setup seems to nullify visibility and some clipping functions. Sigh Well maybe someone can help me finish this one day Im done for now
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[bmw]

This thread reminded me of something I attempted long ago (I just so happen to still have the screenshots)....