GoldenEye 007 Nintendo 64 Community, GoldenEye X, Nintendo 64 Games Discussion

[MultiplayerX]

Okay I came up with an AMAZING idea for Silo in multiplayer. Or at least I think so lol . I am known by my friends to come up with cool ideas for movies so maybe I should speak my mind more in hacking too.

It would take FOREVER for me to do this because I'm not an expert like some of you cats but you might find this intriguing:

Silo vents could be extended and clipped out to connect the start of the level to the middle half. Perhaps the stage would run PHENOMINALLY better if it was cut in half and we introduced an actual vent SYSTEM to where one could travel seamlessly between sections using air ducts . I am willing to start the project BUT I need someone who can finish this since I have so many other things I have to finish. Finding a DEPOSIT room wouldn't be hard because we could simply allow clipping to allow you to drop out through a wall if necessary.

I think this would really give Silo a unique multiplayer feel and take any of the BORING out of it.

What do you think and can you help?

DOWNLOAD**** Here are my setup files for Silo in GoldenEye Legend. Should be easy to load them up and start working.....


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[MRKane]

I've often wondered what should be happening with the vents in silo - I always figured they'd connect to a lift system somewhere along the way and that'd be almost the infiltration part of the game getting down into it that way (instead of starting at the bottom). Then there's the "what's happening up top" question as gards would be pouring in from the garrisons, but back to the main topic.

The level is rather linear for a multiplayer level, and almost needs the areas broken down into a couple of silo sections and possibly some good combat environments (shooting across/around a rocket in the main shaft as well as back section access through the connecting rooms and halls). It could be a good way to modernize the maps in a more UT kind of way.

One of the first custom levels I ever made was actually a whole heap of rooms literally re-arranged with the editor, so you take what's there and just movie it around.

I'm super bogged down with work at the moment, and am also helping with Goldfinger which chews up the remainder of my time at this stage, but Silo has always been one of "those" levels where I think we all wish it were a little more. I might actually give the re-arrange approach a bit of a poke if I can find the time
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No Mr. Bond, I expect you to be re-coded!

[MultiplayerX]

MRKane wrote:

I've often wondered what should be happening with the vents in silo - I always figured they'd connect to a lift system somewhere along the way and that'd be almost the infiltration part of the game getting down into it that way (instead of starting at the bottom). Then there's the "what's happening up top" question as gards would be pouring in from the garrisons, but back to the main topic. The level is rather linear for a multiplayer level, and almost needs the areas broken down into a couple of silo sections and possibly some good combat environments (shooting across/around a rocket in the main shaft as well as back section access through the connecting rooms and halls). It could be a good way to modernize the maps in a more UT kind of way. One of the first custom levels I ever made was actually a whole heap of rooms literally re-arranged with the editor, so you take what's there and just movie it around. I'm super bogged down with work at the moment, and am also helping with Goldfinger which chews up the remainder of my time at this stage, but Silo has always been one of "those" levels where I think we all wish it were a little more. I might actually give the re-arrange approach a bit of a poke if I can find the time

Same here on time Kane. Sounds good bro. Yea I'd like to toy around with this thing and eventually see it come to light. That's why I made an AD for it because it forces me to finish it. It's like a subliminal message saying SILO X....coming soon. lol Keep me posted bro. I may dink around with Soguns peaches castle and see if I can understand how to tilt clipping and make it work right. Multi
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[MRKane]

I've been having a think about it in my spare time (spent staring at the roof while I'm wondering if the water will come up through the floor at night - the city is flooded where I am lol). It might almost pay to sit down and put together a sketch of the level on paper as it almost sounds like we could re-hash this quite a bit. The base design of it (in my mind) would be kind of similar to many of the COD maps where there is no dead end room and there's plenty of flow throughout the level.

The other thought I had would be to duplicate rooms around the place...which would kind of defeat people screen glancing as they could never be quite sure where you actually are
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No Mr. Bond, I expect you to be re-coded!

[MultiplayerX]

EXCELLENT. I really need your help dewd on clipping. If you could PM me a small breakdown of your techniques because it's hard to tell what you did in clipping mode. I need details like VALUES you set when you angle it and how it all connects and works from floor to ladder... ladder to floor, etc. We have to do this mod. I think everyone would LOVE it.
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[SubDrag]

You really need to do clipping in modeller, the editor is too manual/hard. at least that's my opinion. Modellers are fast/precise for this.

[MultiplayerX]

oh yea? DELEd work good? do you like that one?
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[MRKane]

That's about all there is going on with my stuff.

I do my clipping from the modeller, and do things like:
-All stairs are ramps (which also helps player aiming and reduces level size)
-All ladders have a "step in" which means that they don't flat adjunct up to clipping geometry, they actually connect to it with vertices
-Some ladders need a "loading area" where there's a slight rise or depression into or out of the ladder - which can make things smoother for the player
-Surfaces are smooth clipped - BSP blocking is something I hate in games, Fear, Quake, UT...they're all really bad for this, and having smooth edges (without all level detail such as the frames on doors) being clipped in really makes a difference to play
-Sometimes you just can't win, and it's back to the modeller to change the clipping layout
-Often the clipping is a "logic" thing, for example, the small boat anchors on the dock of the dam aren't clipped, as logically a real human could just step over them - as a designer thinking about things like this can solve problems also. In one test level I made I tried clipping over small objects using a rise in the clipping and setting it to crouch - it was supposed to make it feel like you were stumbling...but just turned out to be annoying
-Clipping room numbers don't have to correspond to actual room numbers. When using portals and extra visibility, you might find you get better results from having rooms assigned "wrongly" - I do this in the Dam level to allow visibility from the island to the rest of the level, and it'd done in a few of the others I think

Also: I didn't think ladders worked in GE multiplayer (don't you just jump back up to the top of the ladder instead of actually climbing it?). Besides, I always liked stairs more - better combat situations
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No Mr. Bond, I expect you to be re-coded!

[Sogun]

Ladders don't work very well in multi in GE. When saw from outside, the players stand at the botom of the ladder even if they are climbing it (been very vulnerable), then they teleport to the top. If done backwards it's the same: the players sudenly hit the ground after leaving the top platform, there's no falling or climbing down.
http://i1185.photobucket.com/albums/z345/Sogunesp/GENoPlaceb2.jpg
In this pic Natalya is at the middle point of the ladder, but from Bond's POV she is in the floor and can be shoot.


Clipping tools in Editor are meant for small fixes. You can't clipp a full level (or even a room) that way because it would take months!
I use Autocad for modelling and do clipping, then Deled to apply textures to the model and export as OBJ.
You can model things in Deled but I never tried it, so I'm not sure if modeling clipping can be done with Deled.

[bmw]

If I were designing an MP map out of silo, I would probably use just the 4 towers as my base:



From there you could add more connections between the towers as necessary, such as using vents.

Also, this level just screams cull-both-sides whereby you could put in some look-out points where you could see "outside"



I have no idea how much culling both sides of most of the textures would slow down the level nor do I know how difficult it would be to portal such a design.

ALSO WORTH NOTING is that grenades would not behave very well in the towers if you had floors above and below each other.

[MultiplayerX]

So what file type does a modeller use for just clipping? what export function do I use? there's uuuummm several in the editor lol
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[MultiplayerX]

MRKane wrote:

That's about all there is going on with my stuff. I do my clipping from the modeller, and do things like: -All stairs are ramps (which also helps player aiming and reduces level size) -All ladders have a "step in" which means that they don't flat adjunct up to clipping geometry, they actually connect to it with vertices -Some ladders need a "loading area" where there's a slight rise or depression into or out of the ladder - which can make things smoother for the player -Surfaces are smooth clipped - BSP blocking is something I hate in games, Fear, Quake, UT...they're all really bad for this, and having smooth edges (without all level detail such as the frames on doors) being clipped in really makes a difference to play -Sometimes you just can't win, and it's back to the modeller to change the clipping layout -Often the clipping is a "logic" thing, for example, the small boat anchors on the dock of the dam aren't clipped, as logically a real human could just step over them - as a designer thinking about things like this can solve problems also. In one test level I made I tried clipping over small objects using a rise in the clipping and setting it to crouch - it was supposed to make it feel like you were stumbling...but just turned out to be annoying -Clipping room numbers don't have to correspond to actual room numbers. When using portals and extra visibility, you might find you get better results from having rooms assigned "wrongly" - I do this in the Dam level to allow visibility from the island to the rest of the level, and it'd done in a few of the others I think Also: I didn't think ladders worked in GE multiplayer (don't you just jump back up to the top of the ladder instead of actually climbing it?). Besides, I always liked stairs more - better combat situations

Actually Kane your clipping works perfectly. Thank God!!! All I did was patch a ROM with your ips and use your DAM setup in the editor and statuepark as a quick convert
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[MRKane]

Glad to hear that I was actually thinking of having it so that the silos were compressed down to two multi-level tubes and a bit of a figure 8 pattern...or a % kind of pattern if you will That way players would spend lots of time transversing the tube walkways and also in "height changing" rooms. One side might concentrate more on hallway combat, and the other on actual room combat, and again with the vents interconnecting things, but players never seem to like crawling through spaces as it hampers their overall enjoyment sometimes.
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No Mr. Bond, I expect you to be re-coded!

[Sogun]

@ Multiplaer X
You can model the clipping with whatever program you feel more confortable with, but you need to be able to export it as OBJ so the Editor can work with it.
Also, you'll need some references in order to model clipping, or it won't match the level. The best thing to do is open the level in Visual editor, then go to Room Positions mode and export the level as OBJ (not sure if scaled or unscaled...). Import the OBJ to your modeler and create the clipping from it.

@ bmw
That looks so cool! 'Cull both' can be done to each tri individually now (you can also do all same texture in level, or all same texture in room). It actaully creates a new flipped tri from the original, so if you 'cull both' all textures you'll double the total polygon count.
The better way to do that would be to really double the tris but create new room groups for them, so when you see them there's only the inside or outside loaded and not both. That's the tricky part, portals shouldn't be too hard if you are able to do some kind of chessboard split.
Is that an ingame pic?