GoldenEye 007 Nintendo 64 Community, GoldenEye X, Nintendo 64 Games Discussion

[Fillerthefreak]

I've been making models for a PD mod with weapons based of a failed indie game I never finished.

This is the model compared to the game's sprites:





The model has 165 vertices, and 251 polys (Around half of the PD Sniper's model when I imported it)

Due to an issue with kHED not allowing looped textures, I repeated certain shapes very carefully to prevent ugly stretching.

Most textures are 32x32, some are 24x32 and 32x64. But I tried to keep them limited.

EDIT: Here's a low-poly version for the 3rd person views.



Has 52 verts, and 68 polys. Textures are 16x16 or 8x16
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[Trevor]

Horizontal resolutions should be kept to power of 2 or more accuriatly multiple of 64 bits http://www.shootersforever.com/forums_message_boards/viewtopic.php?t=6802

Repeating textures must be powers of 2.

If you are using a modeling program that does not support UV > 1 then you are failing the N64 and yourself.

The Prop gun looks very pixelated, Id use the same textures as the 1st person gun (again refere to UV > 1).


Trev
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[SATURN_81]

ENGLISH:

Trevor magnificent job, I'm looking forward to seeing his new weapon in PD. at first I did not set well and thought he was a KF7-Avenger. Maybe later his weapon can benefit from the possibility of animations.

you know whether weapons or other games like Turok TWINE can be extracted and placed in a PD? the truth is that I do not care if initially work as they should if they could carry, I'd settle for the Walter-PPK TWINE running in the grooves of the Falcon 2 Dostovie or PP7, since they seem to share the same form shooting, reloading, and have very similar way to move their moving parts.

SPANISH:

magnifico trabajo Trevor, estoy deseando ver su nuevo arma en PD. al principio no me fije bien y creia que era un KF7-Avenger. tal vez mas adelante su arma se puede beneficiar de la posibilidad de animaciones.

usted sabe si las armas de otros juegos como TWINE o Turok pueden ser extraidas e introducirlas en PD ? la verdad es que no me importa si al principio funcionan como deberian si es que se pudieran portar , me conformaria con la Walter-PPK de TWINE funcionando en las ranuras de la Falcon 2, Dostovie o PP7, puesto que parecen que comparten la misma forma de disparar, recargar, y tienen muy parecida forma de moverse sus partes moviles

[Fillerthefreak]

I'm sorta confused about the N64 Textures and TMEM guide. But I understand that they have to be powers of 2?

So I could have ratios of:

32x32

32x64

16x64

8x16

and so?

As for prop models, I thought they used lower quality textures to reduce memory space.

I also believe PD supported 16 colours max for textures, correct?
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[Trevor]

No, PD supports the same variaty as GE which is a Texture unit limitation.
So, they both support
4, 8, 16, 32 bit colour
4, 8, 16 bit greyscale.

Wrapping (repeating) happens on power of 2 boundries, so yes, 1,2,4,8,16,32,64,128 are all powers of 2.

Horizontal widths must be multiples of 64bit.

So, if you use a 4 bit texture, width must be 16, 32, 48, 64 ...
if texture is 8 bit width must be 8, 16, 24, 32, 40, 48, 56, 64 ...

Basically, to keep things simple, use either 32x32 or 64x32 or 64x64Grayscale.

Props dont have to use small textures, in fact, using only 1 set of textures is better than using 2 sets.

GE/PD seem to only be able to load TMEM with 1 texture at a time anyway, so why not utilise it to the full.



So, to summerise:

Use 32x32 (any format)
64x32 (4bit colour / greyscale)
64x64 greyscale

Use the same textures for prop and gun.
Optimise texture usage by making use of texture features, Clamp, Wrap and Mirror.
Also, use model colouring where possible instead of colour textures.
eg, wood can be a grey texture and model coloured brown.

Looking at your model, I assume about 6 textures.

Trev

P.S. SATURN_81, I am not sure what you are refrencing but I had no part in this model.
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[Fillerthefreak]

There's 8 textures, but some of them are edited versions that are used for looping, you could remove them to conserve space usage.

Also, here's the model, all textures have have ratios changed to fix N64 standards, colours may have to have changes, though.

Low-res model isn't here, need to re-texture it.

http://www.vg-resource.com/attachment.php?aid=5651
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[AL64inthedark]

It's really not possible to go further than 32x32 for square textures of 256 colors ?

[Trevor]

"It's really not possible to go further than 32x32 for square textures of 256 colors ?"

Well, not if you want it to Mip-Map, although, since you specify square texture then no, not at all since the max size for 8bit is 64x32 = 2048Bytes = Lower TMEM Full, 8Bit = Upper TMEM Full, so thats it.
Edit: 40x40 would be the max square texture, but in addition to lack of mip-mapping, you would NOT be able to repeat the texture over a surface as it would look corrupted around the edges.

4Bit can go to 64x64 but there is no more room for mip-map, however, if Rare had placed the TLUT into the last Upper TMEM slot, perhaps Lower TMEM could have overrun to allow placing of mip-maps into the first part of Upper TMEM.
At this time its a theory and I have no proof that the overrun would work. There was mention of an overrun years ago by Zoink, but I cannot find any info on it.


The Biggest Texture loadable on the N64 is a 128x64x4 Greyscale.

Trev
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[AL64inthedark]

Thank you very much. This is interesting, because then, you can still use a few 40x40 textures for some uses (clamped thing).

Quote:

The Biggest Texture loadable on the N64 is a 128x64x4 Greyscale.

I extracted textures from F1 World Grand Prix, and they did some good textures this size for landscapes far in the background. Looks really good.

[Trevor]

Why would you want waist 448 bytes of TMEM just to have a square texture, its much better to use 64x32 in that example (and it can repeat) so long as it can never be smaller than 64x32 on-screen (causing the moir effect)

Also, you may notice that I repeatedly state 64x32 and never 32x64, thats because TMEM prefers the longest size to be width (faster loading and easier mip-mapping)
Rare actually made a number of mistakes with regard to 32x64 or 32x48. both of which should have been rotated 90 degrees for efficiancy.

Also, other games made use of ROM textures that were bigger than TMEM textures, these had to be cut to fit TMEM at runtime and then placed on equally small pollies to make the overall texture surface.

If I read correctly however, Texture rectangles could be drawn directly to the framebuffer from ram and so could be any size of texture.

Trev
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[AL64inthedark]

Well I didn't tought about Tmem (that thing is still confusing to me).
I was thinking it would just be more convenient if the image (for example a commercial panel) would have been originaly a square image, which is something that will be in a map I'm working on.

As a side note, I'm playing a lot with F-zero X this days (thanks to DD support on everdrive) and they made nice uses of 128x8x8 (256 colors) that tile.
It's the tunnels/pipe/cylinder textures.

If my math are correct (I suck at that ^^), you could go till 128x16x8 ?
If so they could have add a few detail, but they really went cheap to get a rom size as little as possible, it seem. Like Road+side of the road is included in the same texture of 64x32, which explain why the sides are often quite ugly.

[Trevor]

You are absolutly correct, oh, well... wait, no, they couldn't.
They want the track to mip-map (otherwise distant track segemnts would appear pixleated).
Since they are CI textures that use the UTMEM for CI, they only have 2048 bytes to hold 4 tiles
128x8 + 64x4 + 32x2 + 16x1 = 1360 Bytes.

Had they used 128x16 they would not have room for the mip-maps.
If they used a non-Square number they could not repeat the texture.
128x16 + 64x8 + 32x4 + 16x2 + 8x1 = 2640! (> 2048)


One possibility would have been to use an odd width and hope that mirror works along the center of the track.

i.e. They could have used 192x8 and still fit under 2048.

However, without knowing how the texture looks or how its mapped, I cannot say for sure.


Yes, they would have been better splitting the track into road and side with seperate textures.


Texture designers dont nessesaraly always draw square textures. They in fact design based on limitations, so knowing that the N64s biggest texture is rectangular, you would draw in that space.
Also of note is that you draw bigger and downsample to the required size.

Trev
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[AL64inthedark]

lol. I have trouble to sleep, and I was sure you would come up with "it can't mip map if it was 16 pixel height".

It has happen, so now, maybe I can sleep

Thanks for going in depth and explain, thought !